C5 2001 Stop & Service - Won't Start. Tm Button ? Intermittent

[bignose2]

C5 2001 Stop & Service - Won't start. TM Button ?? intermittent

 

c5 exclusive se hdi manual diesel 2.2 2001.

 

 

HI Daughter has the above car & 200 miles from me so I can't experiment too much & being my daughter information is a little vague!

 

Had few months & been OK. New MOT & Service & know full 10 year history.

 

During the day had driven a few short journeys OK, later went to shops, came back to car after about 1 hour and would not start.

 

Stop & Service Warning & engine management icon. nothing else.

Would not even crank at all, she did say there seemed to be click behind the dash on turning the key.

 

Called breakdown, eventually turned up, don't think they got a fault code, originally thought it was the battery but later not (Don't know why they changed their minds) but they did jump start OK.

Not really sure if warning lights had gone out or what but I am 99% sure the battery is quite new & OK and especially as just driven.

 

I think it generally is OK when started new, i.e. first thing in the morning or after some hours.

 

Does it V.Approx 1 in 3 times but runs fine once going & does not stop.

 

Called an auto mechanic out, no fault codes either. He advised to press the TM button, which seemed to fix for a short while. Could not find anything else as this temp fixed it. not being there not sure what else he tried.

 

Did fail again following day, fiddling with TM button seemed to fix it but NOT straight away but was in some minutes.

 

I am amazed the TM button could have any effect unless a short but there does seem some effect unless big coincidence.

 

One thing I wondered, I believe there is a small leak from hydraulics "Misting on suspension" in MOT "but not enough to be a problem"

Could low pressure be sensed & full prevent of start. I really don't know if levels were checked but I did mention to auto mechanic.

 

Could the Raise/Lower ride height buttons cause this if pressed.

 

 

Sorry so many vague points but not sure where to go, don't really want spend a lot at proper Citroen garage and not being local hard to know if you are going to get a good auto electrician in Leeds.

 

Can the TM be disconnected or switched off, she is not getting any messages as far as I know & doubt subscription to it for many years.

 

Thanks I/A

 

 

 

 

 

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I doubt the Traffic Master has anything to do with it. On our previous C5 it would give out messages if the car was stalled or the battery disconnected but not wishing to pay for a subscription I just pushed its button to stop it each time.

 

It could be something like the crankshaft sensor is failing, these start to give problems when hot but once cooled down will let the engine run. They do not usually give a fault code since the engine needs to run for one to be given. If the starter motor is clicking but not turning then it could be a fault with the starter motor or its wiring.

 

If you are going to pay somebody to sort it you are best to use a Citroen dealer with the right diagnostic equipment and experience of your car. The hourly rate might be higher than elsewhere but there should be less hours and the right solution found.

 

On the front suspension struts a slight amount of oil on them is normal and you should wipe it off before the MOT.

[Johndouglas]

Hello & welcome to the forum. I sympathize with your predicament about diagnosing faults for daughters from a distance. I know the feeling well. Four possible faults here. First check that the battery is holding a charge. You need at least 12.6 volts to turn the engine over. Also check the cables from the battery to the starter and also the negative strap from the battery to its earthing point. Corrosion on any of the connections will give poor starting. If the battery and cables are OK, then check the starter motor. Finally, although the battery is in good condition, if the alternator isn't putting out sufficient volts, it won't charge the battery. Ideally the voltage should be checked at the battery with the engine off to see if it reads 12.6 (or there abouts). Then checked again when the engine is running to see if the battery then reads 14.5 or more. If it does show those voltages, then the alternator is OK>

 

I'm puzzled by the reference to the TM button. That usually only has an effect if you've taken out a subscription.

 

I wouldn't be too worried about "misting" on the suspension legs. Nearly all hydraulic C5s have that and MOT testers who are not too familiar with Citroens often mark it down as an advisory or even a fail. The thing to do is to lift the boots and give then a wipe just prior to presenting the car for an MOT. Low LDS fluid is not likely to prevent the engine from starting, neither will touching the suspension level buttons.

[bignose2]

Many thanks to both for advise,

 

I hope that both the recovery people & mobile mechanic checked the battery/alternator charging etc as that would be the first thing I would do & I am not a mechanic.

 

The mechanic did say battery OK but how far he checked I still don't know, I think this is after driving somewhere and not first thing in the morning so really would assume not a charging issue as after standing overnight that would be the time most likely to struggle and it seems it either turns over really well or not at all.

 

I would have not believed the TM button in a million years would have anything to do with it and why the mechanics went to it, I don't know but to my astonishment fiddling with it does seem to make a difference but again could be just coincidence. Next time I will get my daughter to really analyse what she is doing but assuming it was OK this morning as not heard from her.

 

It does sound a bit like a bad earth or starter.

 

 

Thanks again.

[MikeLane]

Intermittent (partial) short circuit - not enough to make smoke - causing battery to discharge. Might be able to check if, when the motor won't turn over, remove key, remove positive battery lead, wait a few (say 5) minutes to let all circuits discharge and then do a resistance check from battery positive lead to vehicle earth. I think this should be an open circuit but with all the circuitry........?

Just another thought - could it be a dodgy contact in the ignition keyhole? Might be worth squirting some WD40 or contact cleaner into the keyhole.

PS - if you do remove battery lead you'll need to perform the BSI rigmarole after reconnecting! (Best of luck!)

Edited September 30, 2015 by paul.h

[MikeLane]

"and then do a resistance check from positive to vehicle earth."

 

I meant from the POSITIVE BATTERY LEAD to vehicle earth!

 

 

I have inserted this in to the previous post just in case this one to correct it is not read  - Moderator edit