Looking To Buy A C5 Mk3 - A Few Questions

[Biohead]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking at a couple of C5s, for the same reason I have had several C4s in the past - a lot of car for the money. Currently on a 2.0HDi C4 (138) which has just had a new clutch + dmf. I've done a fair bit of reading but just hoping for a few people's input on this.

 

I'd quite like the idea of an exclusive as I believe there are few suspension issues but they're pretty rare. I've got the directional xenon's on the C4 which really are useful, but on the C5 mk3 they seem even rarer.

 

I'd buy this as a steady cruiser, to commute to work and back, and occasionally visit family 200 miles away. I know on the C4, the 1.6HDi is a good engine but it had to be looked after properly. But is it underpowered on the bigger C5? And is the 160 recommended over the 138 2.0 lump? I'm familiar with the DPF on my C4 - is it the same system or has it been tweaked? Something my C4 must use is the recommended Total oil I've found. Anything else will kill the engine at the end of a regen (yup, weird!).

 

 

Now the autobox (proper auto) would be completely new to me if I get one, and I'm not familiar with the C4 ones either. What sort of maintenance do they need? Any comments on reliability? Not too fussed about the higher tax although it does hurt!

 

I do have a C5 in mind (non-exclusive), but it's fairly high mileage. It appears to have been looked after but are there any flags on the C5 once it gets over 120000? Any tips to look for when I check the car in person? I've got diagbox so I intend to check what history I can through that, but obviously it will only say what's been done in the past that needed diagbox connecting.

[Johndouglas]

The suspension system on the C5 is pretty reliable and doesn't often present faults. The suspension pump which was once belt driven becomes an electric pump on the C5. There was a time if you got an exclusive, you also got xenon lights, but Citroen dropped that idea after the facelift models. With a choice between the 1.6 and the 2ltr engines, take the 2 ltr every time. Not only is it a much more reliable engine, as you say, the C5 is rather too heavy for the smaller one. Providing oil changes are carried out correctly, the 2ltr engine seems to soldier on for several hundred thousand miles. Auto boxes don't appear to give too many problems however they do give better service life if they have periodic oil changes - which are quite complicated since the auto box can't be completely drained. Several owners of early C5-X7s have reported leaking power steering racks, a fault on 2008 & 2009 models which apparently Citroen UK don't admit exists. On the forum there is a useful topic dealing with common problems.

[Biohead]

Thanks for that, another question that I've not seen much mention of... The LED DRL headlights. It looks like they feature from late 2010 models? Maybe early 11. Does anyone know if you get the headlamps you can fit them to earlier mk3s and they'll work?

[Johndouglas]

My present C5 is a 2010 model and it is fitted with DRL lights, but they aren't LED.   They use a filament bulb which carries a price tag of 30ish quid a pop and Citroen quote one hour labour charge to replace one.      Several members have experimented with using LED bulbs as replacements.

[paul.h]

Have a look at the C5 Technical section Common Problems topic and there is a section linking to a LED drl topic but more fitting LED bulbs instead of normal ones. Take the steering rack oil leaks seriously when checking a car over since to fix can cost around £400 to 1000 depending on whether a reconditioned or new rack is installed. Also check the front wipers work, again a few £100 to fix. Make sure the exhaust dpf has not been removed or drilled through, with it working the exhaust tailpipe inside on our cars has been clean metal, if not and it is covered in soot then the dpf may not be there. http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/20279-common-problems-rev-522016/

 

If looking at around 120k miles then the timing belt will be due as well as the exhaust dpf. If you do not need an auto then why even bother looking at one, it would cost more in maintenance, fuel and tax ? Do you intend to use the car for towing ?

[Biohead]

Thanks for the tip on the steering rack - I'd read it but didn't realise it really does mean that much to sort out. With the LED DRL lights, I liked how the strip went all the way up the side but that's really just a nice to have feature.

There was no main reason for going for an auto - I wanted to avoid another clutch and DMF change and I guess at the mileages I'm looking at there might be a bill shortly on a manual if it's been hammered. The auto would be nice to commute in mainly, as I'll probably keep the VTS for "proper" driving. No intentions of towing anything.

 

Any cars i'm looking at I'm making sure the timing belt et al. have been done. Although the DPF may be one I'll have to take the hit on. A lot of people with the C4 take them off and pressure wash them to extend their life... guessing the same would apply here unless access is much worse?

[Lenny]

There was no main reason for going for an auto - I wanted to avoid another clutch and DMF change

 

 

That was one of my reasons for narrowing my search down to autos only.

 

The other reason was that I drove a manual and an auto on the same day and formed my opinion that the C5 is such a laid back, comfortable bus that it seemed such an effort having to swap cogs myself.

The negatives are the fuel consumption and the road tax but the trade off was worth it I reckon.

I also drove both the 138 and the 160 bhp engines and found both of them quick enough. The 0-60 time for the 138 auto is about 13 seconds but it genuinely doesn't feel that slow to drive. I finished up with a 160 auto that is apparently about 10 seconds for the same yardstick but doesn't feel much quicker to me.

[paul.h]

If you find a dpf has been removed or drilled through, the ecu software will have been changed also. To put all this back would cost quite a bit but without a working dpf the car may not pass the MOT and may/would not be insurable when the modification was declared. Cleaning the dpf will be the same as the C4.

[Biohead]

So the auto I went to see yesterday is in really good nick. Eolys was refilled recently + cambelt done. High level stop light was crack and a couple of small chips in the windscreen really was all that was wrong. Only concern was showing 33mpg over the last 2000 miles... Can anyone with an auto relate? I usually get 47 out of the VTS so that's my yardstick.

 

There's a manual one a bit further away. I know it's not in as good condition externally, cambelt hasn't been done and the eolys is an unknown. It's also got a couple less toys. The big one though is at its last service they found it needs a new power steering cooler/pipe. That work hasn't been done yet, but is a diagnosis of that indicative of the steering rack? This is a 2011/60 model though - does it affect later cars?

[Lenny]

My auto is averaging about 43mpg.
 

[paul.h]

You can read/copy/print in sections the car handbooks here (select your language first and then the car and then the year). These contain the official mpg for the various engine and gearbox options. http://service.citroen.com/ddb/  That mpg may have been short trips and round town - one reason for an auto is for a lot of town use queueing to save the left leg clutch changes. You also have not given the engine size. If it has been used for short trips then the brakes may be worn - when bought at 3 years old our latest C3 was on 30 something mpg average but had only done 12k miles. It was not long before I had to replace the front discs and pads.

 

The steering does not have a cooler pipe, just oil pipes. If you have read the topic on steering rack leaks it has cases of apparently leaking pipes that were the rack but also pipes that have corroded. even the pipes are expensive. If the car is from a dealer you need some guarantee the oil leak will be fixed, whatever it turns out to be since it may need a rack and pipes.

 

The high level stop light is not needed for the MOT, but if it fills with rain then it would be best to replace it, probably around £50+ for a new one - but if the car is at a dealer then you could ask for it fixing if you want the car.

[Lenny]

Might be an idea to make sure you get a decent warranty with it whether it's from a dealer or privately.

I bought mine privately and I've thrown a few hundred quid at a Warranty Direct one (£540 for two years) but I made 100% certain that the steering rack and other known weaknesses were covered beforehand.
The price of the warranty is nearly as much as I paid for my last car (Xantia) but I reckon it's worth it for the peace of mind.

 

(If you go with warranty direct then make sure you haggle with them. I got mine down from £360 a year to £270!)

[Biohead]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the engine in all the fuss. I decided to limit my searches to the 2.0HDi, 160 model. Too many horror stories of 1.6's not being looked after.

 

So, after having a look at the manual model (2011/60, 2.0HDi 160) I made an offer and it looks like I'll be joining the club! In my opinion, it looks like I've got it for quite a good price (private seller) which will go towards the cambelt change, possibly eolys top up and tidying the interior up. I also think a worthwhile warranty may be a decent shout for this steering oil pipe. Glad to share more details if people are interested. 

[Biohead]

Well, I have picked up the wagon and I've got to say I'm very impressed so far! A much, much smoother ride than the C4, and it's looking much better on the fuel consumption as well. I took a pretty steady (but still above 60mph) journey on the way home and the car ended up showing a total fuel range of 1050 miles possible on one tank.

Still getting used to the myway system - coming from the RT4 I have a habit of going to the knob to turn the volume down. Only thing that's bothering me is the surround around the radio and aircon control panel - it's peeling in areas. Fortunately its black plastic underneath so not too easy to notice, but just wondered if it's a common issue? If not i'll try grab a replacement.