Running On Fumes

[seefive]

Caught something on YouTube which got me interested , and looking around the web.

People in the US are working on a system for powering petrol engines with fumes, rather than liquid.There are working examples , returning over 200 mpg (US gallons), so around 230 mpg  for europe

 

They are working using a jerrycan mounted in the engine bay, part filled with petrol with an air intake and a feed direct to the engine's air intake (mixture of air and fumes is drawn into the engine). Existing fuel pump is disabled,

Result is massive fuel economy , very low emissions and reduced carbon in the engine

 

Of course, development has been suppressed because of  the catastrophic effect on the oil industry.

This is nothing new - the idea has been around for decades,

 

By rights, we should all be driving "vapor cars" now, not dirty horrible diesels, and saving a fortune in the process

 

Comments?

[coastline taxis]

trouble is the oil companys buy the rights by offering stupid money to the inventor. they then keep the idea from the public

[MikeLane]

Not sure whether I believe this. Running petrol cars on extremely weak mixture usually causes difficult starting, pinking, burnt valves and overheating (and not VG performance).

[paul.h]

Sounds as if the jerry can is just becoming a crude carburettor. These were replaced since they could not give the mixture control needed to give low exhaust emissions - or maybe the jerry can has special software in the ecu to fool the emissions tests. I would not be surprised if the cans occasionally explode since the vapours mixed with air must be in the flammable range and with the liquid splashing around there is bound to be a build up of static electricity.

[MikeLane]

I remember that, many years ago, there was much dicussion about "water injection" into cylinders, the theory being that this would turn into steam and effectively increase the compression ratio and hence mpg.

After a correspondent said he'd run his NSU Quickly (a moped) for 632 miles using 2 gallons of water and a capsule of (petrol) lighter fuel, the magazine editor closed the topic!

[BobMuk]

Hmm.  For some time i have had a hydrogen generator (De Verde technologies) fitted on my 2>0l diesel turbo 2005 exclusive, the car is officially registered as 'Alternative fuel - gas'. i get a small reduction in road tax. the big plus though is increased MPG, increased torque, and VERY LOW emissions. even  though my Eloys warning is up, there is no loss of power, no limiting of revs. 

The small amount of energy used by the unit is 2.5A @ 12v while engine runs. no hydrogen stored. no alterations to sensors or ECU. My last MOT Acceleration test gave a reading of 0.26 ppm!  11yrs old car!!

Thats cleaner than most petrol cars....

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

The eolys level warning may not mean there is no eolys fluid in the tank, it could be it has been topped up and the level calculation has not been reset using a diagnostic. The actual level is not measured but is calculated based on the number of fuel tank fills.

 

Does the hydrogen generator dose a tiny bit of hydrogen to supplement the diesel since it can not be the main fuel since it is being produced by 30 watts (2.5 amps x 12 volts) of electricity whereas the engine is 138 hp = 103000 watts. Since you can not get out more energy than you put in it can only be below 0.03% of the engine power produced but it has taken this power out of the engine. 100% efficiency is not possible so the resulting power from the engine available to drive the car must therefore be marginally less. Which makes it sound sceptical.

[MikeLane]

Just found this on the web:

 

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/de-verde-ltd-a13-228861.html

 

However, I remember a mate in the RAF telling me that, for short periods, they could "boost" engine power by injecting "water-methanol mixture". I think the theory was that methanol does increase thermal efficiency and, during combustion, water turns to steam so effectively increases compression by adding to the volume of combustion products.

I suppose one could call water Hydrogen Monoxide and methanol comprises carbon hydrogen and oxygen so no particle problems. But methanol tends to have contaminents that damage metal e.g. cylinders and fuel lines so .....

 

As has beenn said, the energy required to produce hydrogen and oxygen from water is more than that produced by burning the results.

Maybe all this box does is add a small amount of water to the injection system.

[paul.h]

Adding methanol is adding more of a liquid fuel so would supplement the usual aviation fuel making it richer, so it is easy to understand this giving a boost.

 

I did a search on de verde hydrogen generator and the ASA have told them not to advertise claims about the benefits  since their evidence could not be sunstantiated. I wonder if the OP is just trying to use our site to advertise the product, the car details are not given and the OP has not been back since making the post. I am tempted to mark BobMuk as a spammer but will leave it for a bit, once marked as a spammer any posts will go. ASA ruling can be found here https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/de-verde-ltd-a13-228861.html