1St Time French Owner With A Few Issues

[Tommcc]

From cylinder side will get a seal tomorrow hopefully just need to find out the torque specs for the injector clamp nuts

[paul.h]

Good luck with removing the injector and the old copper seal. If the injector is stuck in you may need to get a specialist to remove it but do not butcher it first since it will be even harder to remove and will then need replacing.

 

From the Citroen service box procedures, for models from RPO 9063 where a single bolt holds the injector clamp in place it gives 30 Nm for its torque. For models before this where 2 nuts hold the injector in place it gives 4 Nm plus 45 degrees and special tools are shown to do this.

[Tommcc]

Cheers bud

Got injector out last night was no problem replaced seal and fitted this morning no leak anymore but still won't start ?

So far checked

Fuel from tank to filter ðŸ‘

Filter to hp pump. ðŸ‘

Fuel to injectors ðŸ‘

 

Return fuel ðŸ‘

 

New starter motor 2.3kw

 

Full battery even tried jump start

 

Car turns over well and everything seems to be all good

 

It started yesterday and once running it runs well but as soon as you switch off and try starting again it won't

 

Today it was just turning over no sign of starting

No smoke from exhaust

 

Hoping to try another diagnostic today as reader I have works on every car I tried except the c5 just keeps saying no link ?

 

I hoping it's a cheapish fix as I actually like driving her (for the week I have been anyway )

 

Only other check I haven't done is a pressure test

[paul.h]

I do not know if this is a possibility but the imobilser could prevent it starting. Have you tried both keys in case one is not being recognised ?

[Tommcc]

The saga continues lol

So this afternoon put battery back on after charging this morning checked connections as before

And decided to just crank until battery died or it started

Initially engine was slow to turn over not slow slow but after 30 seconds the engine cranking speed certainly sounded faster ??

After almost a minute she started so took her for a run and no issues although I believe limp mode is on as she didn't seem to rev past 5k ?

 

Engine light is on

Dash display just says the usual asr fault and triangle is on (is always on tbh even when running fine lol )

 

So

What would cause a slow start then it to speed up ?

 

After the run she turns over a lot quicker than before run ?

 

I tried other key just in case but no difference

My computer still won't link up with obd so still no readings ?

[coastline taxis]

NEVER NEVER open a injector on a hdi when the engine is running. Diesel will slice through skin at the 4 to 500 bar pressure its under. Then once in your blood stream you WILL DIE. THERES NO CURE NO NOTHING JUST DEAD.

 

What scanner are you using and have you checked the fuse for the diagnostic port. its in the glove box

[Tommcc]

Ok so still takes a while to start if I switch it off

Have taken it for Italian tune up to burn off the crap and clean the fap out

I gave a pretty big flat spot around 3k but then she picks up and goes really well

 

So current symptoms

 

Initial cranking to start takes around a minute (if battery doesn't die and it's continuous I.e not resting it just keeping ignition cranking )

 

About 30 seconds in the engine cranking speed picks up so turning over faster ?

Eventually starts

Runs fine. Just flat spit around 3k then it picks up and goes

Idle speed is around 500rpm

Dash lights

Engine light

Service light

Adp/esr light (also comes up on display in centre )

 

 

Can hear turbo spooling up the whistle anyway

[Tommcc]

Did check fuses and they looked ok will check again

Scanner is a vgate 890 maxiscan

The weird thing that got me thinking is the engine speed changing during cranking I understand it will get slower the more you crank due to power drain but baffled as to why it would speed up without sounding like it wants to start then after a while it starts ?

[paul.h]

Is the fuel filter still full of air before you start the car and it is taking half a minute to fill up  ?

 

The speed pick up when starting may be it is just starting to fire up rather than anything else.

 

Have you checked the battery positive and earth cables/connections and to the engine/gearbox and starter motor ? Maybe an earth point needs cleaning or the earth strap to the gearbox from the body is in poor condition. You could try to measure the voltage at the battery and the starter when turning it over to see if there is a large drop at the starter end compared to the battery and see if there are any cable hot spots after switching the ignition of before it actaully starts, suggesting cable damage.

 

Being a 2003 diesel, it did not need to be OBD compliant so not all code readers will work on your car and even then people have found they do not all work on C5s.

 

Reading the engine fault code may be the big clue we need to solve this, maybe the cam shaft sensor is faulty or some other sensor. To see the code for the ASR/ESP fault needs more than just a low cost reader which will only do engine fault codes.

 

Being a 2.2 hdi, at the gearbox end of the cylinder head is an actuator arm with a plastic socket on it for the swirl flaps. This can break and give the ASR/ESP fault. A new part called a diaphragm was around £20 a few years ago but you can just swap the plastic socket from the new part.

[coastline taxis]

Use the wiper stalk and scroll the display till it says check controll then hold the end of the stalk in   the car will start to check systems and display what codes are stored. If it dosnt then the fuse has chance to be blown. Use a multi meter and check each fuse for continuity as you cant see hairline cracks or resistence issues

[Tommcc]

Checked fuse for obd and it's good reader powers up through obd port but won't link to car

Checked earths and they all tight and look in good condition

Scrolling through wiper stalk gives me

Ask/esp

And occasionally anti pollution fault. I say occasionally because it doesn't always come on its intermittent

 

Strangely the engine turning over sounds faster than before although still takes around 30 seconds of cranking non stop to start

[Tommcc]

And back to no starting again 😡

Car cranks over but not start

[Coffeejohnny]

I had this issue with a 2.2 hdi c8 it took a long time for the garage to listen to me and change the starter as it was returning loads of other fault codes too, which it continues to do. The starter held on to life for a long time, intermittently seeming to come to life then other times dying completely and popping the fuse. I had to replace the fuse plate off the battery as the dying starter popped the fuse due to increased prolonged load as it took ages to start.

 

The starter eventually fully died and then it was replaced, my car now takes a few cycles to get going but it starts it sometimes takes longer to start but not to the point of it being an issue. The other codes do exist but the starter definitely needed  replacing from the get go.

[Tommcc]

So after it failing to bump start the other day due to battery being flat I have now got car back home and battery on charge car is going to a specialist on Tuesday .

A mate has mentioned about relays sticking which may cause the intermittent starting ?

I'm at a loss as to where the relays are I assume they are buried somewhere ? I've also been told about a third bank of fuses not shown in handbook is this correct ?

I just want to look at these things before going to specialist as it could save me a heap of cash

[paul.h]

Relays are usually built into the engine fusebox. Also in this are some maxi fuses under the top layer of fuses.

[Tommcc]

Ok so pulled fuse board in engine bay to reveal the maxi fuses I seem to be one missing but that could be normal knowing manufacturers put everything in anyway

Starting is non existent although now I do keep blowing f15 30a fuse in engine bay ?

Both battery cables are pretty warm after only a minute of cranking ?

Leads me to believe there's a short somewhere ? Could this be my issue ?

[paul.h]

If you have a handbook you could check what fuse f15 does but in the Haynes and the French RTA manuals they give F15 as a 15 amp fuse that does the engine management, injectors and electro valves. So if this fuse is blown then the car will not start so it may give you an idea of where to look. You may need to follow the wiring from the fuse and check for any damage/shorting to earth/bad connections/anything that could cause it to fail. Also try to check if it should only be 15 amps since if a higher rating is used the wiring could melt.

 

In the wiring diagrams in the RTA manual fuse 15 appears as a supply for

- the speed sensor

- the doser valve

- the egr valve

- air pressure regulation - may be the turbo

- HP fuel pump

- swirl valve actuator

- the engine ecu

- electrovalve air heating - not sure what this is

[Tommcc]

Yeah handbook says

F15 30a fuse for engine actuator , ignition coil , lambda probe .

I've replaced fuse but as soon As you turn key it blows before cranking being hdi it's obviously not ignition coil

But as for engine actuator I have no idea what that could be ??

It only started blowing fuse after the other day I only noticed as the starter sound was coming through the speakers

Every other fuse is ok and been tested I've unplugged the plugs from engine fuse board and checked for burnt wires and nothing , pulled the board out to check maxi fuses and they ok even pulled circuit board and checked that for any damage again looks ok

So current symptoms are

Takes an age to start if at all

Esp/asr fault on dash

Occasionally engine immobiliser fault on dash

Anti pollution again it's only occasionally

Cranking speed is slow but does speed up before starting (if it starts )

F15 blows instantly in ignition

 

 

Replaced fuel filter

Replaced starter motor

[aspire_helen]

I am coming into this a bit late but......

Citroen specifically advise not to depress the accelerator during engine start, but do say to depress the clutch to reduce engine turnover resistance.

Regarding fuel.  Starting when hot but not when cold may indicate fuel draining slowly from the supply pipework ie it drains away fully overnight but not after a few minutes/hours.  As previously mentioned, the diesel filter prime is intended to drain off any water which may have separated out (diesel floats on water).  When unscrewed, diesel (not air, nor water usually) should drain away - catch some in a jamjar, let it settle and check it for water/dirt etc.  I suggest opening the drain valve before trying to start the engine after overnight.  If copious diesel (not water) drains away then thats not the problem.  Alternatively, unscrew the filter top and check that way.  Of course, if the filter housing is draining away, surely it can only drain via the bleed valve at the bottom, or a cracked housing (which would also let air in)???! Are there any signs of diesel leaks?

 

 

From another angle, in the past I have checked that the LP tank pump and HP pump are working by carefully slackening their output pipes when cranking the engine.  Of course, the LP tank pump activates (it can be heard) on ignition to prime the LP pipework before even attempting to turn over the engine.  The upshot of all this is that the LP and HP fuel system should be fully primed in a few seconds and should not require the extended turnover Tommcc is reporting (unless its priming with air or water!!).  So perhaps the fault is elsewhere.