C4 Vti+ Petrol Auto 3 1/2 Years Old Engine Problems

[birchallp]

Hi there everyone in expert world.  Had my Citroen C4 for about 9 months now.  Been very pleased with it, no issues whatsoever until last week.  Just over 35k

 

Last week, drove 1 mile.  Judder, got warning engine icon.  On diagnostic check Misfire on 4 - took it to a mechanic.  diagnosis -Spark plug was going,  he replaced it and all was good... for 2 days.  Did another 150 miles.  Then on day 3, driving along engine slowed to a halt, lot of heat being given off.  Left it for a while.  Coolant area was empty.  Had checked that and oil days before.Left it to cool a bit and added some water gradually.  Added more.  After about an hour the engine started first time.  but had called out recovery.  Had added 7 litres of water by then.

 

Recovery came out, checked oil.  Milky, water in the engine area mixing with the oil.  Recovered back home.  

 

I started it when I got back today, started first time.  Only ran it for about 10 seconds.  Water resevoir was empty.  With the engine not running, so not under pressure, added more water to the coolant resevior.  After  putting in about 5 litres of water I can see it is running straight into the engine somehow.  The milky liquid is now at top of engine and if I added more water to the coolant resevoir it would spill out.

 

A head gasket was my first thought.  But, it starts first time and had no drop in pressure up until the point it stopped.  Any ideas please?

[coastline taxis]

sounds like a head gasket. if it,s blowing from the water ways to the oilways then it would not affect the compression. any garage should do a sniffer test to confirm this

[birchallp]

Many thanks for your comment.  The thing that makes me wonder if anything else is that the water just seems to flow quite quickly.  Didn't know if anything else could be the cause. I supposed worse case would be a cracked engine!

[paul.h]

With that much water being lost so quickly and you have not mentioned seeing any pools of water on the floor or the expansion tank overflowing, then either it is going straight into the sump and the oil level would have overflowed, or it is going straight out of the exhaust and you would see the exhaust gases full of steam.

 

If you had a pool of water on the floor then possibilities include the water pump failed, an engine core plug failed, the head gasket failed to the outside, another gasket failed.

 

When looking at cylinder numbers, on the C3 they are numbered from the gearbox end but I do not know if it is the same on the C4. If you remove the spark plugs you will see signs of head gasket failure if the water is going into a cylinder - the spark plug will be clean and the top of the piston may have water on it and will also be clean.

 

If your car is from a Citroen dealer you should have a 12 month warranty so the car should be returned to them.

[birchallp]

Hi Paul

 

No pools of water underneath, no steam out of the exhaust.  The water doesn't seem to have access to the expansion chambers, just the rest of the engine.  It was bought via an auction, so no recourse I'm afraid.  Being such a low mileage and for the past two years being serviced by a Citroen dealer I was wondering if approaching Citroen may be of any use.  What do you think?  Due up for a service next month.

[paul.h]

It is possible the engine temperature sensor is faulty. On our 2010 C3 1.4 vti it kept going to max temp and running the engine fan, despite being cold. Our local dealer said there was a recall on the sensors and it was fixed free of charge. The recall may not be well known/well published but the dealers know about it. In our case the temp showed high but in this case it was low so the coolant was being blown out of the expansion tank - hence no puddles or steam in the exhaust http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=106120  Maybe in your case it has caused the head gasket to fail. I would not run the engine if the oil (with the coolant) level is now high since this may cause a lot of damage.

[birchallp]

Hi everyone

 

Just been speaking to an engineer and they said that if there was oil in the radiator system, then it could have originally been the oil cooler.

 

I've just taken off the top pipe from the rad and there is oil and water coming out?  What do you think?

[paul.h]

If your car has an engine oil cooler, it will be the part that the oil filter fastens to. It could have failed or its gasket could have failed. You would need to remove it and possibly pressure test it and check the gasket.

[birchallp]

Hi there.  Yes, that's what I was thinking.  Even though it started off with that it may have blown the gasket/ warped the head through overheating.

 

The guy I just spoke to suggested a second hand engine and swap it out.  I think I'm going to go down the diagmostic route first.

 

Thanks for your reply

[paul.h]

Citroen have a recalls site you can register on and see if your car is missing a recall on the temp sensor. On our C3 we went to the dealer last October with the problem and they said the recall had just come out, so Citroen had not contacted us. The recall may have been NG2 http://www.citroenrecalls.co.uk/

[birchallp]

Thanks.  Tried that, no recalls on this model.  Amazing that it didn't appear on any search.  I still haven't anyone who will look at it.  In the meantime I'm going to drain the sump of the oil/water mix.  Just from the pipe I got approx 2ltr of water and 1 of oil.  I'll check the plugs.  Anyone know what size spark plug socket I'll need.  I believe it needs to be a bi-hex and thin wall and because they are deep down a magnetic one would help, just not sure of the size of socket needed. it's a 2011 1.6 petrol.

 

I really do appreciate all the help I'm getting here.  It's keeping me sane.

[paul.h]

Our 1.4 vti C3 uses a 14 mm thin wall long socket 12 point for the spark plugs but the plugs have a different part no. to the 1.6 vti so it is possible they could be a different size. The torque setting is 23 Nm for the plugs. If you need new plugs I found the Citroen dealer was a low price at £34 for 4, 2 years ago - they are long life platinum ones. The 1.6 vti ones may be part no. 5960L0 but you should check using your VIN. A search using this part no. suggests the same socket as the 1.4 vti http://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5960l0

 

I vaguely remember buying the socket and since it was not specific for spark plugs, I may have used a bit of card inside so it gripped the plugs when removing them.

[birchallp]

Hi

 

Update

 

Well, had a diagnostic on the engine a couple of weeks ago.  The issue seems to be that an engine plug has come out whilst I was driving it.  Why it would come out on a warm afternoon seems to be a bit difficult to explain.  I was told one of the reasons would be a lack of anti-freeze.  This is very doubtful as it was last serviced by a Citroen dealer.

 

The garage quoted £7000 for an engine change initially.  Now they are saying it would be the right thing to do to put a new clutch in, even this one has done less than 36k.  They said I will not get much change out of 10k

 

As the resale price of the car is only 6k I know where this is going.

[coastline taxis]

Take your car out of theat garage as they dont know what there doing.  You cant put a clutch in a auto box as it just dosnt have one so good luck to them on that one. The head will be warped now so youve got 2 options either change the head or change the engine. Ebay has  complete cars on with good engines. Or any good breakers yard will have a engine in for around £500 then say another £2oo for oil/service/timing belt parts  plus labour. total bill should be around the £12 to £1300 . mark

[paul.h]

 'The issue seems to be that an engine plug has come out whilst I was driving it.'

 

Is this a core plug - I have replaced some on possibly a Maxi engine where they had rusted and one developed a rust hole but it may have been about 10 years old and had rusted from the outside. Was easy enough to replace, just put a bit of sealant on it and tapped the new one in to the hole. It was found quite soon after leaking though so there was no engine damage.