C5 Handbrake Cable

[muttontop]

Citroen C5 52 plate saloon.

Hi guys, hope you can shed some light on these problems, I've searched the forum but could not find an answer. 

Problem 1 - I was changing the front pads on my C5, I started with the off side (drivers side) and wound back the piston (anti-clockwise as advised in the forum), the caliper locked solid before it was fully wound back and the caliper would not drop back over the new pads because the piston was about 1-2mm fouling the pads, any ideas as to what has happened? I re-assembled the old pads as there was still some wear left in them. 

Problem 2 - After re-assembly I noticed that the handbrake cable on that side was not fully releasing the cable, after plenty of freeing oil I could manually pull the cable out to free the brake but as soon as I put the handbrake on and released it the lever did not fully release, not by a lot but enough to make it difficult to turn the wheel.  By applying a little manual pressure to the lever it fully released.  Inspecting the cable I noted that where the outer cable meets the rubber grommet that feeds into the guide tube I could pull the outer cable towards the front of the car to expose the inner operating cable.   On inspecting the nearside (passenger side cable) it would appear that there is a break here as well but this is not affecting the operation of the handbrake.  Is this correct or should the outer cable be fixed to the rubber sealing grommet because if that is the case it looks like I might need both cables (and tubes according to this forum) replacing.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Johndouglas]

Did you have the slots aligned with the pegs on the backs of the pads?

The outer cable shouldn't be fixed to the grommet on the guide tube.

The hand brake lever should release on it's own without any help. Sounds as though the cable is binding on the guide tube. If you can withdraw the cables from the guide tubes by using some lubricant you may get away with just renewing the cables. Usually the cables won't pull out. You will have realized that the two cables and tubes are handed.

[muttontop]

Thanks for your response, Yep, pegs aligned with slots, but with the outer edge of the caliper bracket aligned with the new pads the piston was contacting the edge of the new pads.

I know the guide tubes are handed but I've only seen cables that fit both sides, even my usual stockist (GSF) only stocks one cable that fits both sides.

Cheers

[paul.h]

Another possibility is the hand brake lever on the caliper is a bit seized so it is not fully back to let the piston go back.

 

I have moved the topic in to a subforum since ones outside of one do not show after a couple of days and are then difficult to find.

[Johndouglas]

I know the guide tubes are handed but I've only seen cables that fit both sides,

Yes the inner cables are the same. The left and right guide tubes are different

[muttontop]

Thanks to all that have replied, with regard to the construction of the cable itself if the guide tube grommet (which is part of the cable) and outer cable aren't connected and just press against each other this will not prevent moisture and dirt getting between the outer cable and the inner actuating cable.  Also due to the way the cable is routed it is almost impossible to get those two faces to meet all the way around to form any kind of seal.  If needs be I'll post pictures of the part if anyone thinks this may help.

Cheers

[paul.h]

Another thought, did you replace the discs as well as the pads - if not, the wear ridge/corrosion that builds up around the outer edge of the disc may be wider than the width of a new disc and if not removed may be a problem fitting new pads. Did you check if the discs were not worn to the minimum since I have found once pads are worn out the discs are usually worn down as well.

[muttontop]

Hi all

I've just purchased a replacement cable, to clarify one of the questions I was asking - the outer cable IS attached to the grommet that goes into the tube so it would appear that this is a weak point in the cable and is prone to breaking.  To answer the above the disc does not appear to be overly worn but I've not checked it with a mic.

One further question - how is the center console held in place?  I've detached the handbrake and gear stick shrouds and removed the rear ashtray to reveal the two nuts that appear to locate the console at the rear.  Are there any more nuts/bolts that I need to remove?

Thanks

[paul.h]

According to the Haynes manual for centre console removal, page 11.24:

after removing the gear and handbrake shrouds, remove the plastic trim in front of the handbrake lever, lift the rear ashtray out and undo the 2 bolts now seen and then remove the rear section of the console. Then undo 2 nuts (picture shows 2 torx bolts) at the rear, slide the console rearwards a little and then lift the rear, manoeuvring it over the handbrake and gear levers. Some wiring plugs will need undoing. 

[muttontop]

Thanks for the quick reply, I've removed the rear ashtray cover (2 torx screws and then pull off).  This reveals two nuts that locate the console at the rear.  Undoing these leaves two short studs.  It would appear that the console is also held at the front (on the "wings" that go under the dashboard) by two clips that also need un-clipping by pulling the "wings" outwards until they disengage.  However, I still can't get the console to slide backwards.  This is further hampered by a bracket holding an electrical box (not sure what this does) which protrudes over the back of the console meaning I can't lift the console over the studs even if I could get it to move.  Looks like I'll have to undo the bracket and move this small die-cast box and see if that makes any difference!  I'll let you know when I've tried it.

Cheers

[muttontop]

Yep, that seems to have done it.  No need to remove the nuts from the bracket, just slackening them off a bit gives enough movement of the bracket to allow the console to lift over the studs.  Now tomorrow's job (if its not raining as I'm working outside) is to see if I can pull the old cable through the guide tube to replace with the new one.  Looking at the new cable there appears to be plenty of clearance between the cable that goes through the tube and the tube itself.  Can't see how this could get trapped in the guide tube with all that clearance!  I'll find out tomorrow!

Cheers

[muttontop]

Removed the inner cable from the actuating bar in the center console fairly easily so in theory the cable should now just pull out of the guide tube.  However, it would appear that the guide tube is a little more than just a plain tube, I can't shift the old cable at all so the tube must have an internal sleeve that starts just after the grommet.  Just as previous posters have said both the tube and cable have to be replaced!  Oh well, I'll have to get a new guide tube and replace the lot.

Keep you posted.

Cheers

[muttontop]

Further information, to remove the guide tube for BOTH near and offside tubes you have to move/remove the heat shield.  This is held in place by a number of quick release screws and the need to undo the two retaining bolts for the front exhaust bracket.  After removing the screw that locates the tube on the wheel arch it also has to be un-clipped from a U clip revealed when the heat shield is moved.  I had to use a hammer and a large screwdriver to knock the old tube out of its housing where it goes in for the handbrake. The tube then pulls out from underneath the car.  The replacement goes back in the same way. However, because of the shape of the tube and the tight path it has to follow the car MUST be either over a pit or up on a lift because the tube has to be almost vertical at some point in threading it through.  There is no way that they can be replaced without either a pit or a lift (unless you roll the car on its side!).

Hope this is helpful to other users.

Cheers

[Johndouglas]

Many thanks for reporting back. Your findings about needing the car lifting high bears out what others have said. So finally are the brakes operating correctly now?

[Smerflet]

.....because of the shape of the tube and the tight path it has to follow the car MUST be either over a pit or up on a lift because the tube has to be almost vertical at some point in threading it through.  There is no way that they can be replaced without either a pit or a lift (unless you roll the car on its side!).

 

It is possible to replace the tubes with the car on axle stands, cause I did it. However it was a close-run thing!

 

Not sure whether this advice has been given on other threads but I'd say if anyone is changing the handbrake cable, I believe it is essential to cut off the 'fork' at the handbrake end (inside the car) before even trying to pull the old cable through. I'm not sure why both mine jammed - they didn't appear to be full of muck, but jam they did and no amount of force would draw the old cable through. A precautionary exchange of the handbrake cable then escalated into a nightmare struggle under the car to replace those tubes.