Front Tyre Outside Edge Wear

[MichaelDavis]

Having had many makes of cars over the years I have never had one that wore tyres on the outside edge as much as this C5! I have had the tracking checked several times and have been informed it is absolutely perfect. I have Goodyear Efficient grip tyres not cheap crap, don't like Michelin's as I like to hear myself think when I'm driving not the sound of tyres! I have driven like an old granny around corners going slow and wide but the tyres still wear off badly on the outside edge. Does anyone have any recommendations how to cure this or is it another " oh that's normal they all do that"

[paul.h]

Our C5 does not have uneven or outside tyre wear and is on Michelins. Our previous 2004 C5 did not wear the tyres unevenly either and that used Michelins. I have stayed with Michelins since they do more miles than others I have used on all our Citroens, possibly 30 to 40k miles depending on the car. Others though have reported lower mileages.

 

Have you tried a Citroen dealer for the tracking/suspension wear check?

 

I have put your car details from a previous topic as your signature to save you needing to mention it every time you start a new topic.

[MikeLane]

Could still be the tracking as the distance between the centres of the front wheels (1528mm) is different to the rear wheels (1495mm). I took my C5 into have the track checked and the operator tried to make the tracking parallel (until I explained this to him!).

Also incorrect tyre pressures can cause rapid wear. (On delivery (new) I thought the suspension was rather hard compared to my Xantia. Then I found I had about 46 Lbs/sq.in (3.3Bars) instead of 33lbs/sq.in (2.3Bars)!)

[MikeLane]

Sorry Paul. I was busy checking dims. in the middle of my post when you posted!

Also mileage wear depends on speed and driving technique.

Edited December 4, 2016 by MikeLane

[MichaelDavis]

Citroen dealers where I am are not great wouldn't let them loose on my car anyway. Tyre pressures are correct at 2.3 but I may go back to the garage that did the tracking and mention the difference in the distance between the wheels as they did not mention anything about it being different front and back - hope they've got it wrong as I'm fed up of wearing tyres out on this car. I may go back to using Michelin's as I have used them for over 20 years just as I said found them noisy compared to Goodyear's or Bridgestones.Thank you for your suggestions and I will have tracking re checked and post back with my results. Edited December 5, 2016 by MichaelDavis

[paul.h]

Have you checked your pressure gauge for accuracy ?

[MichaelDavis]

I've checked the tyres with a few different gauges both digital and old school and they both read the same. Looking at the paperwork for my wheel alignment there is no mention that front wheels are further apart than the rears so hopefully when I mention this on Friday to the garage that did the alignment it will sort out the problem.

[MichaelDavis]

Went back to garage that did wheel alignment - I asked the gentleman there if he did tracking by lining up front wheels with the back- he said yes. I then said well that explains why my tyres wear on the outside edge then he said he just put the figures into his machine and does what it tells him - he even said my tyres weren't too bad as they were evenly worn off and he's seen much worse - now I have no confidence in this garage so will take car somewhere else to get it checked/adjusted. Edited December 9, 2016 by MichaelDavis

[Shane Peet]

Hi, we had a problem with our Tourer. The front nearside tyre wearing more on the outside and more than the offside. Two or three times its been tracked to keep it right.

[MichaelDavis]

Just an update on my tyre wear. Had new Michelin all weather tyres fitted today and tracking adjusted. Tracking was miles out I was told! With the new Michelin's and corrected tracking I feel like I'm driving a new car- the roadholding is amazing for such a big heavy car and the steering is much more precise- the ride is a little firmer than it was with Goodyear Efficient Grip tyres but even the braking is more solid- I think the Goodyear's were too soft for this car. I'm so pleased I spent money on these fantastic tyres - I don't usually comment on tyres but the transformation is staggering!! 😀😀😀😀

[paul.h]

Hopefully this is the end of the tyre wear problem. It may pay to feel the tread (run a hand over it) for uneven wear in a few months as an early check to see if it has been cured. How do the new tyres compare against the old ones for noise ?

[MichaelDavis]

I would say that there is a very slight increase in noise from the tyres but nothing like I remember from Michelin's I've had on cars before- the Michelin Cross Climate tyres are rated 1decibel louder than the Goodyear Efficient Grip that I had on. I also noted that the braking on the front of the car was much more solid with the Michelins - like I said I think the Goodyear's were soft tyres. I also can see as I have new Michelin tyres on the front and Goodyear's on the rear that the tyre sidewall is squashed on Goodyear's and more flat on the Michelin's so they are definitely a firmer tyre. Tyre fitters want me to return after 2000 miles for a free tracking check- got to say that the car feels almost like it's on rails now very very impressed and will definitely stick to Michelin's when I need new tyres for the rear- cost £70 more for a pair than the Goodyear's but money very well spent for sure in fact cannot recommend these new generation all weather Michelin's highly enough! Edited January 14, 2017 by MichaelDavis

[Rookie2]

Hi Michael

If noise is an issue then have you considered Nitrogen instead of Air in the tyres ?

[MichaelDavis]

No I hadn't - but both sets of tyres are very quiet anyway in fact get more wind noise than anything else- one area that has not been sealed correctly in the factory is the rear boot glass at the top corner of the hatch but come the summer I'm going to carefully remove it and glue it where it should be- I put some electrical tape in that area to seal it up and amazing the difference it made.

[samjmann]

I've owned a C5 110 diesel VTR Estate for the last 10 years, and I've been plagued by this same problem. I've had Michelins, cheap tyres, now Uniroyal, the wear pattern is the same - outside edge almost 'milled off' first. I've had the car 4 wheel aligned, normal alignment, they say it's fine. I'm lucky to get more than 10K from a front set. Some people have posted that the problem is the steering rack, in that the front wheels 'tuck in' and roll the outer wheel on to it's outer edge. The C5 facelift has a different rack which is supposed to stop this. I can't believe this - any thoughts? I've looked around lots of C5 MK1's and many have perfectly evenly worn front tyres, so I can't help think that this is more of a alignment problem. I don't drive fast, too many speed traps where I live, you can get 9 points on a trip across town!

 

I had forgotten that on the C5 the front track is wider than the rear, specialised alignment gear needed?

 

Regards, SJM.

[Rookie2]

Hi samjmann

 

I have often found it necessary to set the tracking on various cars either because they had been damaged repairs or for some reason ha their racks removed .

 

Of course going along to the,local tyre depot is the easiest way to do it but sometimes you just have to try and get the tracking somewhere near to be able to drive there.

 

I usually get a thin wire (electric fence wire is perfect), tie one end of the wire off to to , for example, the back axle, then run the wire around the outside of the cars wheels (all four of them) directly through the horizontal centre of the wheels. When you have run the wire through the fourth wheels centre line, tie it off to another fixed point on the vehicle.

 

Now if you watch where the wire passes along the horizontal centre line of the front wheels, you can turn the steering until you get exactly the same gap between the leading edge of the rear wheels, (if the fronts are toe in) or the trailing edge of the front wheels (if they are toe out)

For instance, if the line (which is touching the leading edge and the trailing edge of the rear wheels) is only touching the leading edge of the front wheels(when the steering in centralised), then it is safe to assume the car is toe out.

 

Now if the car is toe out, for example, take a measurement between the wire and the trailing edge of the front wheel on the drivers side and compare that measurement with the same gap on the passenger side. This will tell you if the toe out is equal both sides.

 

It may be that you set up is toe in, the same applies except that your measurement will be between the leading edge of the rear wheel and the wire.

 

So if we assume your vehicle has been set up by the local tyre shop, you can perform these measurements so you know what they reckon it should be..

From there, you can adjust the toe in/toe out, to try to get a setting which is a little kinder to your tryes and yet still retains steering attitude.

 

You have the original measurements so can easily return the vehicle to what the local tyre shop reckons it should be.

 

Its sounds a little complicated trying to explain but it is in fact really simple. If you can imagine running a thin wire right round the whole car directly through the centre line of the wheels.

 

I have done this many times on lots of cars and have got them close enough to what they should be when checked on garage equipment. Give it a try, it's simple and free

Edited January 21, 2017 by Rookie2

[MikeLane]

Hi samjmann

 

I have often found it necessary to set the tracking on various cars either because they had been damaged repairs or for some reason ha their racks removed .

 

Of course going along to the,local tyre depot is the easiest way to do it but sometimes you just have to try and get the tracking somewhere near to be able to drive there.

 

I usually get a thin wire (electric fence wire is perfect), tie one end of the wire off to to , for example, the back axle, then run the wire around the outside of the cars wheels (all four of them) directly through the horizontal centre of the wheels. When you have run the wire through the fourth wheels centre line, tie it off to another fixed point on the vehicle.

 

Now if you watch where the wire passes along the horizontal centre line of the front wheels, you can turn the steering until you get exactly the same gap between the leading edge of the rear wheels, (if the fronts are toe in) or the trailing edge of the front wheels (if they are toe out)

For instance, if the line (which is touching the leading edge and the trailing edge of the rear wheels) is only touching the leading edge of the front wheels(when the steering in centralised), then it is safe to assume the car is toe out.

 

Now if the car is toe out, for example, take a measurement between the wire and the trailing edge of the front wheel on the drivers side and compare that measurement with the same gap on the passenger side. This will tell you if the toe out is equal both sides.

 

It may be that you set up is toe in, the same applies except that your measurement will be between the leading edge of the rear wheel and the wire.

 

So if we assume your vehicle has been set up by the local tyre shop, you can perform these measurements so you know what they reckon it should be..

From there, you can adjust the toe in/toe out, to try to get a setting which is a little kinder to your tryes and yet still retains steering attitude.

 

You have the original measurements so can easily return the vehicle to what the local tyre shop reckons it should be.

 

Its sounds a little complicated trying to explain but it is in fact really simple. If you can imagine running a thin wire right round the whole car directly through the centre line of the wheels.

 

I have done this many times on lots of cars and have got them close enough to what they should be when checked on garage equipment. Give it a try, it's simple and free

Not sure whether this will work with the C5 as the distance between the front wheels is different to the distance between the back wheels.

Also I've had the Michelin Cross Climates fitted to the front wheels and it feels as though I'm on rails. Wonderful tyres. They have reinforced sidewalls but Michelin said that they are recommended by Citroen so... The ride is a little harder but now I'm used to it. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by MikeLane

[paul.h]

Makes you wonder if these free tracking checks at tyre fitters are the cause of badly worn tyres. Maybe they are not doing it right, maybe by having tyres wear quicker they sell more tyres. For the last few decades I have turned down these free checks and since then not suffered bad wear, but if I had it likely would have been a worn suspension part that might be found at the service or MOT and not need a tracking adjustment as the fix.

[Rookie2]

I have noted on quite a few cars that not just a broken spring, but a incorrectly seated spring can throw the alignment out, even a worn strut top bearing does exactly the same and is very hard to identify. I've seen people fit narrower tyres just to stop the outer wear.

I suppose it all goes back to the old Brittish Leyland problem, just hoping you dont buy a car that was built on a Friday afternoon. Lol.

[samjmann]

Thanks for the replies especially Rookie 2 for such detail.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly the wire passes through the centre line of the wheels all the way round. On the C5 the wheels are set into the arches quite a way and I think the wire would foul on the bodywork. Worth a try as you say, it's always a good thing before going to a garage to have some idea of what's happening. I've had the suspension checked at a local independent Citroen specialist and all is OK. That aside some cars appear OK and others not, so something isn't right!

 

Regards, SJM.

[Rookie2]

Sorry SJM

 

I  dont have, and have never had anything to do with, the c5 model, I didn't know the wheels are well into the arches. I suppose you could achieve the result with blocks of wood on each wheel and then wrap the wire over the top of the blocks, be a bit fiddly though trying to hold everything in place.  Apart from that , someone else has just mentioned that the wheel base on the c5 is different front and back.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Rookie2

[paul.h]

If it needs packing out with wood then you could use different thickness front and back to allow for the different wheel base.

[MikeLane]

"I suppose it all goes back to the old Brittish Leyland problem, just hoping you dont buy a car that was built on a Friday afternoon. Lol."

...and not just a Friday afternoon!

In 1985 I was offered a company car up to a certain value (I think £8K). At the time I was driving a company Austin Maxi. If I drove over about 60mph the doors bowed. It was good at aquaplaning too! Apart from that....

However, being British, I looked at a couple of Maestros and a Princess

My wife got into the back of the Princess, closed the door and the handle came off.

I had a test drive in a Maestro and was told not to drive over 30mph as it "didn't steer very well." It turned out that one of the suspension parts had been put on upside down.

I bought a BX16 TRS!

[samjmann]

Any offers of help are always appreciated.

 

I've read a post on another site of an easy way of measuring the front to back tyre distance using a length of threaded rod slid into a length of cooper tube. After setting the steering wheel straight, the cooper tube is put against the rear tyre and the threaded rod slid into it, the rod is the slid up to outside edge of the front tyre, a nut on the treaded rod is then adjusted to 'memorise' the distance. Ideally this should be the same as the other side! I reckon that this would confirm that each wheel is, or not, set the same. How you could say you've got toe in or out, I'm not sure?

 

All of this is now starting to be less important, as I've now got no power the suspension pump, the car won't raise from the 24mph setting it's on now. The pump has been making squealing noises and of late has started to run slowly. This may have blown the 40Amaxi fuse. I think the pump motor has almost seized. A very careful drive to my Citroen garage is due tonight when the roads are quiet!

 

Cheers, SJM.

[mhedwig]

My mk1 c5 hdi had tyre wear when I was using cheap tyres but I am now using michelin and have increased the tyre pressure to the same as the rear 2.5 bar and no more wear problems