Suspension Issue

[Hydroactive]

Hoping someone could give a little advice, I have a 2012 C5 Tourer 2.0 HDI exclusive with Hydroactive 3+ have had no problems until recently where the suspension seems to have no dampening when hits a bump in the road, it is quite harsh when driving on anything other than a smooth road. Bounce test when stationary is fine, suspension cycles though all positions fine and fluid level is correct, at a lost end dealer put on a diagnostic and said it was fine :/ anyone had any similar problems or ideas?

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

May be one of the spheres needs replacing. This is from the common problems topic:

44. How to check the suspension spheres.

This topic contains useful information from coastline taxis on how to check which sphere is at fault if the suspension is hard http://www.citroen-o...ues/#entry83812

[Hydroactive]

Hi Paul, Thanks for the link to the thread,I have had a look and by the sounds of it it looks like it may indeed be spheres, front and back are fine but is no give on either side as I can tell, as there are seven spheres on Hydroactive 3+ and since front and back is fine I'm guessing it's one of the the other three spheres. I know one is anti dive but thought the other two were involved with change from comfort to sport but both suspension modes ride terrible. Hoping it's not something more serious :/ Edited March 21, 2017 by Hydroactive

[coastline taxis]

check your ride hieght adjusters to make sure one of the link rods hasnt siezed. but Please please make sure you have axle stands under the car or do it over a pit

[Hydroactive]

Thanks for advice, I have have checked sensors look pretty good, no muck or grime build up, I have lubricated anyways whilst was under car, this suspension issue is really got me stumped, raised car to full height turned steering lock to lock then to low steering lock to lock and back to normal, been out in the car and suspension almost felt normal not 100% then after a couple of mile back to feeling like every lump in the road feels like hitting a stationary object, I also forgot to mention that as I know that the power steering and suspension is on separate systems only sharing the fluid reservoir the power steering is sometimes very heavy when pulling away. The pony work I have ever had done was balancing, wheel alignment and tracking and had the steering wheel adjusted as was not sitting straight when in a straight line. The hunt for a solution continues

[paul.h]

If the steering wheel was not in normal alignment then that is a sign the tracking has not been done correctly. If the tracking ever needs adjusting it should be done equally on both sides. Check the number of threads on the track rods at the ends to see if they are the same. I have found from experience it only needs adjusting if the rack or track rod ends have been replaced and offers of checking the tracking should be turned down since it may not be done correctly.

 

A common problem on your car is the steering rack leaking oil out of the pinion input shaft seal. This may be the result of rusting on the shaft. The fix is a replacement new or reconditioned rack costing around £350 for recon to £1000 for new. Have a look on the C5 technical section pinned Common Problems topic. Prevention may be greasing the input shaft so it does not rust.

 

I would also check the battery since if its voltage is low it can have odd problems and the power steering pump may be electric. Before starting the car its voltage should be about 12.7 volts, much below 12.5 volts and it needs charging or replacing. If the electric tailgate stops working this is also a symptom of a low battery or if eco mode comes in after only a few minutes.

[Hydroactive]

okay, so have checked the battery and is showing 12.3 volts before starting the car alternator is fine as showing 14.6 volts when engine is running maybes the battery is out on its way out, will check track rods and steering rack tomorrow and see if there are any issues there.

[Hydroactive]

Slight delay on an update.... So I have changed battery and checked track rods and steering rack, all check out. This suspension fault is hard to diagnose, right now I'd fine when start engine and fine for first couple of hundred yards then boom hard right it's like something just switches off can be hard or soft intermittently at motorway speeds this is a very confusing 😖 as was intermittent but has now become almost 90% of the time is becoming a real head ache, I have also noticed a crackling coming from engine bay roughly from where suspension pump is, sounds like a rattling / clicking relay / sparking? Air in the fluid? Only starts above 50mph gets faster as speed goes up from there? Not massively loud but only started when the suspension began to play up? Could be totally unrelated but I donkey know.

[paul.h]

Have a look at this in case it is a pump problem http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/24368-c5-exclusive-wont-raise-past-normal-ride-height/

[Hydroactive]

Return of the suspension issues, so after a few months of normal service, my suspension has decided to misbehave once again, this is a lumpy ride which is firm to soft back to firm bouncy, this coupled with intermittent stiff power steering, I know that the power steering only shares the fluid resivour with the suspension but seems too much of a coincidence that the two issues happen simultaneously I'm totally at a blank, been on diagnostic no faults, no leaks, cycles through all heights, fluid level correct, height corrector fine and lubricated, have fitted new tyres and has just passed its MOT and the steering rack has been checked and is fine, the fact the car goes in and out between normal ride quality and this lumpy harsh ride quaility has me confused is this some thing simple that if anyone has any ideas what could cause stiff steering coupled with stiff suspension intermittently this happens at various speeds regardless of road surface, I would welcome any ideas, deal can't find fault but agree its there :/

[paul.h]

You could check the battery voltage since the steering pump is electric on most models.

[mechcanico lee]

Hello , could the power steering pump be the fault and if the heavy 12 volts power supply to the power steering and suspension pump be a shared supply ,and when the ps pump goes faulty it is dragging the supply down on the suspension pump down so much the suspension goes into a limp mode and this is why the suspension goes hard / harsh .

 

It could also be that the ps pump fault drags the can network down for suspension and power steering together, I would of thought that either of the suspension or power steering ecms would be able to flag codes for these issues but you never know how the design engineers write the software .

 

Could do with looking at a wiring diagram to see what's shared and on the same network.

[Hydroactive]

Have had a look not too sure about the wiring but , beginning to think it could be down to the power steering pump, I fitted a new battery a couple of moths ago and have tested it showing 12.6v and 14.7v when engine running, now voltage does not change much whilst engine running so windows, rear screen, even suspension cycle it drops to 14.5-14.6v but turning steering lock to lock it dips to 13.2v and the steering seems to be getting heavy and notchey when turning. Could explain the suspension issues if it is heavy on power and is drawing too much power, anyone had to replace the pump? Would probably have to be a dealer job for me, anyone have a rough idea on the cost to replace it?

[paul.h]

eurocarparts gives a price of £225 for an aftermarket power steering pump, a new one from a dealer could be more than this but a used one may be your best option. On the Citroen parts diagrams there are a few different part numbers for the electric pump and also one driven by a belt (since your voltage drops when turning then you probably have an electric one). You would need to use your car VIN to get the right one. It seems to be about 1½ hours to replace it.

 

To remove it does not seem too difficult, it is in the right front wheel arch so needs this wheel and wheel arch liner removing and the engine under tray. Before starting the suspension should be raised to max and the lds tank cap slackened and left undone until the car is back on the ground (to avoid the tank splitting). It is probably wise to disconnect the battery so the suspension pump can not run. The suspension needs to be depressurised which could be done by slackening the drain screws underneath and catching some fluid that runs out. Then unclip the pump connectors and then clamp (to minimise fluid loss) and remove the 2 low pressure hoses (new jubilee type clips may be needed) and unbolt the high pressure one. Then undo the pump fastening nuts so it can be removed.

 

Once back together the steering needs bleeding, the following is from the Citroen service box procedures:

5. Bleeding the hydraulic power steering circuit

CAUTION : The electropump assembly must never be run without oil in the power steering circuit.

5.1. Hydraulic suspension

Apply a pressure of 0,5 bars in the LDS fluid tank ; (using a FACOM 920 tool).

Reconnect the battery.

Start the engine, with the wheels straight ahead without touching the steering wheel.

Wait for the vehicle height to stabilise.

Put the vehicle in the high position then in the low position.

Top up the level (if necessary).

Move the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, 10 or so times, with the wheels on the ground.

N.B. : Do not hold the steering on the stop in order to prevent the opening of the pressure limiter.

Check there are no bubbles in the tank.

If some bubbles are present in the tank, allow it to degas completely ( 3 to 5 minutes), engine running without moving the steering wheel.

Carry out 5 new movements of the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, with the wheels on the ground.

Repeat this phase until the bubbles completely disappear from the surface of the fluid in the tank.

Put the vehicle in the high position then in the low position.

[MikeLane]

I can't not post this (but I suppose you've all seen it!):

 

 

I used to change wheels as shown on my CX, BXs and Xantia and, I'm pretty sure, on my facelift C5.

(Can't understand why .........!)

[Hydroactive]

We'll have checked the pump, is belt driven from the engine, but I am thinking it definitely has to be something to do with the power steering, Could it be that air is getting into the steering system somehow and is causing heavy steering the air is then traveling to the reservoir and being pumped into the suspension system causing poor ride quality? Have visually checked the system and can't see any fluid leaks on power steering pump, resevouir or the steering rack its self has definitely got me stumped :/ just seems strange both issues are happening together last few days steering now intermittently extremely stiff when pulling off from traffic lights ...... :,(

[paul.h]

With a belt driven steering pump, the only common thing with the suspension is the lds fluid and tank and outlet pipe. So you need to check the fluid level again with the suspension on low. The level should be at the bottom of the tank filler strainer.

 

For the steering you could check the drive belt is in good condition including any tensioner, is not slipping and maybe watch it with the engine running and somebody turning the steering wheel. You could also check any hoses/pipes for damage or going soft so they collapse and restrict the lds flow.

[Hydroactive]

I have checked all the things suggested to try to establish the issue but still no joy, everything seems to check out and in working order, the thing I can’t get my head around is the fact that my suspension issue and steering problems are happening simultaneously though the systems are independent with the exception of the shared fluid resevoiur, today upon fairly brisk acceleration the steering went so stiff you would think it was on the high setting and the steering you could barley move side to side softened off a little but was still harsh, put the suspension into sport mode softened off which is weird, drove a further few miles put back into comfort mode and it went hard again, I have had days where suspension and steering is close to normal though I am now coming up to a year since this all started , many trips to dealers nothing found but there has to be some explanation, computer or mechanical, as the car is a 2012 model and has covered 47,000 miles is there any mainlanders needed ? does the LDS fluid need replaced? I just don’t know. Been reading about what controls the suspension so could be anything height sensors, steering wheel angle sensor, speed sensor, pressure regulator and so on an so on, so complicated , feeling sad

[coastline taxis]

your car is 2012 its now 2017. your lds fluid is 5 years old  think id be changing that . ebay sell it £35 for 5 litres delivered

[paul.h]

I bought oil for our C5 from Neilsen in Swansea at a good price and delivered in 2 days with no bother. Their LDS is less than £7 a litre (you will need 5 for a complete change) plus a delivery charge. https://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000090.pl?WD=lds&PN=Total%2d%2dLDS%2dHydraulic%2dSuspension%2dFluid%2dCitroen%2d1%2dLitre%2dTOT_166224%2ehtml#SID=115