Serious Suspension Fault

[spiff]

Good afternoon from an overcast Mullion Cove Cornwall.

 

I have read most of the posts about this message, but wonder if the lead up to mine has any bearing on it.

The  car is a 2003 C5 petrol automatic estate.

 

We had to reverse about 50 yards on a one track lane and soon after the Serious Suspension Fault message kept flashing up ?

The car ran fine.

 

Also the gear box fault message appeared soon after which it has not done for 450 miles since I drained a litre of over filled fluid out.

 

I cleared the gear box message again this time by stopping and restarting, it has not appeared since, though the suspension one keeps popping up.

 

I can still raise and lower the suspension, there are no leaks anywhere.

 

While stationary with the engine running if I raise the car to high, as I switch to lower it the message will sometimes appear and I think the pump motor does not run when it does.

 

I have checked the link to the rear stabiliser bar and lubricated it, I have not done the front one yet.

 

Is it OK to pull the plugs out of the fuse box, the one under the cover and bonnet on the passenger side to spray with switch cleaner ?

Should I disconnect the battery first in case it scrambles the computer ?

 

I have had a look at pictures of the electric pump, is it OK to remove the plug from this to clean without disconnecting the battery.

 

I also wonder if it is possible to remove just the motor from the pump so as to avoid having to disconnect the hydraulic lines from it ?

 

I may connect a couple of wires across the pump feed to see if volts are there when I try to lower the suspension.

 

The fault is intermittent.

 

God Bless Spiff

[paul.h]

Apart from the message, what is the suspension doing, is it showing any signs of a fault ?

[spiff]

Good evening thank you for your reply : )

 

No so far it appears to be at normal ride height when driving and also adjusts as you get in.

 

If there is an intermittent feed to the pump motor or the motor is intermittent, may be it will not affect the ride height in the time the supply is interrupted ?

 

I was wondering if reversing so far had some how caused the problem and posted to see if anyone else had had this happen.

 

It could have been coincidental that the gearbox fault showed up at the same time, or maybe not if it is a poor electrical connection sending spikes to the computer ?

 

Cleaning all the plugs that feed the fuse box is an easy thing to do to start with, but before I pull all the plugs should I disconnect the battery.

 

I have read on the forum that disconnecting and reconnecting the battery has to be done a certain way.

 

I have been in radio and TV and electronic since starting work in 1961, intermittent faults are often the worst type to trace : )

 

God Bless Spiff

[spiff]

Just to add the Suspension fault message comes and goes, it stayed off for the last 7 mile trip from The Lizard to Mullion .

[paul.h]

A search comes up with a few things you can try before going for a diagnostic check. A cheap code reader will not do though since these will not read suspension codes. You may have seen this one https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=56957

 

Since the suspension pump can be live most of the time I would disconnect the battery before removing plugs. On the C5 Technical section pinned Common Problems topic there is a procedure I use for disconnecting and reconnecting the battery. You probably already know to raise the suspension to max and then use axle stands to support the body before going underneath and playing with the height sensors. We do not want you coming back and saying you have been squashed if the body drops to a low level.

[spiff]

Thank you for the link I had missed some of that, very kind of you.

 

Many years ago in London when working on my cars, I had my Dad and friends around me, now they are all gone and people rarely do their own repairs.

 

They do not even wash their own dogs : )

 

While I was replacing the drop links on this one in Mullion Cove, a tourists commented "look a man mending his car you don't see that much nowadays" : )

 

For some reason some of the images the gents have loaded up have been removed, such as the height corrector which is a pity, but still plenty to go on with.

 

If and when I sort it out I will post back : )

 

God Bless Spiff

[paul.h]

There are not many of us fixing our own cars these days (or anything else). However, it lets you run an older car which would not be economic if you had to pay for labour charges, our local dealer charges £96 an hour. Even on ones under warranty I clean the brakes since that is not part of the service you pay for, just an oil change and a few filter changes for around £250. I've had children from the street come and watch whilst working on our cars since they do not see anything like it at home - no wonder the mentality these days is to throw things away rather than fix them since people are not being exposed to practical things.

 

The images where there should be a photo I have often seen when people no longer have the accounts where the links go to.

[spiff]

A young boy said, "look Dad a car in a garage", he had been brought up to think it is a storage area I think : )

 

Dad always put the car away and dried it off if it had been raining.

 

Alanna and I fix every thing ourselves, we even roofed the building last year three floors up : )

 

Today we drove to the village to pick a large box of apples up that were too heavy to carry the mile distance.

 

The message appeared on the way back, the car stayed at normal height. 

 

I stopped and tried to raise the car, no movement and message came up instantly.

 

After reversing in the garage and stopping the engine I released the foot brake and the motor ran to level the car : )

 

I shall have to do some more tests, I have just purchased an Oculus Rift virtual reality unit, setting up the room sensors and extending cables is too much of a temptation to me and its cold out there.

 

The car gets very little use a 1000 a year so no hurry, lovely motor though, it has a vintage look about it even though it is a lot younger than our Xantia was, I never liked the front shape of the Xantia.

 

I prefer the look of the 2003 C5 to the later models, hooked on the automatic and leather seats, we always had a manual car before ,72 at Christmas : )

 

Off for a run round the cliffs : )

 

God Bless Spiff

[spiff]

An update on the suspension problem : )

 

Today I put the car on high and sprayed the front sensor with WD 40, then a drop of oil on the two pivots.

 

The cover was missing that protects it from road dirt.

 

After this the car would not drop from the height position, no sound of the motor

 

Drove it a mile or so no luck, and still no sound from the motor if I tried to lower it.

 

I thought maybe the motor had been going and the load had now blown a fuse as it would not move up or down at all.

 

I checked all the under bonnet fuses and the ones in the passenger glove box all OK.

 

Put axel stands and tool away and started it, the motor ran and the car dropped to normal height.

 

Drove it 50 yard message came up but the car stayed at normal height, drove a further four miles no further message.

 

Turned off restarted to put in garage message appeared again so put car away as it was dark.

 

Something is stopping the pump from running intermittently ?

 

Could it be the sensors or the pump ?

 

God Bless Spiff

[paul.h]

Maybe the pump motor needs an internal clean http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/23976-c5-suspension-fault-pump-maxi-fuse-blowing-fault-code-p1351/ or maybe the height sensors have a fault. Do the arms on the sensors move easily ? If a sensor needs replacing it is not really a diy job since it is positioned roughly but then a diagnostic does the final height calibration. Also the sensors should not be removed from the car due to this. When the car is lowering the pump does not run.

[spiff]

Maybe the pump motor needs an internal clean http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/23976-c5-suspension-fault-pump-maxi-fuse-blowing-fault-code-p1351/ or maybe the height sensors have a fault. Do the arms on the sensors move easily ? If a sensor needs replacing it is not really a diy job since it is positioned roughly but then a diagnostic does the final height calibration. Also the sensors should not be removed from the car due to this. When the car is lowering the pump does not run.

Hallo Paul,

 

 ( When the car is lowering the pump does not run ), I did not think of that possibility.

 

So there will be a valve solenoid somewhere that releases the pressure to let it drop ?

 

This solenoid must receive a feed from the lowering switch ?

 

This would apear to remove a motor fault from the list of suspects, do you think so  ?

 

God Bless Spiff

[paul.h]

Maybe you could check the lowering switch wiring. You could also try a message to coastline taxis, he likely will have seen problems like this but does not use the forum every day. I will not be on here for a couple of weeks now either so will be unable to add any more posts for a while.

[spiff]

Good evening, had the car on ramps.

Have lubricated the links from the sensors to the antiroll bars front and rear.

Fault still there, also did a system reset by going through the battery disconnect procedure, but that did not help either.

When it goes into fault mode the lift and lower will not work, if the car is left for 20 mins or so it then works again.

The fault only shows up if the vehicle is driven, or when set to high, but not every time.

We have to visit the hospital in Penzance on Tuesday, but after that I may take the sensors apart.

There is a used rear one on eBay for £22, so heavens knows how much a new one is : )

It looks to be a very simple job to remove and fit them.

God Bless Spiff

[coastline taxis]

Plug it in and see what coadess you have also check live data when lifting and lowering

[spiff]

An update

 

Is the data from those devices specific enough ?

 

I do not have one as of yet so today I did the following : )

I could not fiigure out how to remove the 12 volt plug that feeds the suspension motor, so I inserted two needles into chock blocks with cable from the other sides.

I then pushed the pins through the 12 volt feed to the motor, about an inch away from the plug.

The cable runs to a volt meter in the car.

I removed a small amount of insulation from the thin signal lead, again about an inch away from the motor, and soldered a wire to it.

I provided a return for this feed from a handy bolt that holds the head light.

The cable again runs to another meter in the car.

The car will have reset the fault by morning so that I can observe the two readings, the first reading in a pump working state, then trigger the fault by rasing the car to high and see what is happening.

At least that is the idea : )

God Bless Spiff

[spiff]

Good evening from a sunny Mullion Cove Cornwall.

 

The car did not want to come out of fault mode today, but as there is 12 volts on the feed to the motor and no volts on the thin wire in the fault mode, I think I have answered the question.

 

It is not the motor but the signalling voltage from the computer that is missing.

 

There was a difference in the message today, as well as the series suspension fault it is flashing up a 24mph height warning.

 

This could be because I was messing about with the ride height a lot yesterday ?

 

The height from ground to the top of the wheel arch is 29 inches front and back, which if I remember correctly is about the normal ride height.

 

The solenoid or what ever is not opening to drop the car height in the fault mode, so I think that confirms the motor is not at fault ?

 

I shall try a repair on the front and rear ride height sensors next.

 

Does anybody know if the signalling voltage to the motor switching transistor is positive or negative ?

 

God Bless Spiff

[coastline taxis]

just a daft one. you have got lds fluid in the reservoir . when was the last time it was checked

[spiff]

Good evening thank you for your suggestion : )

 

I used to install and service taxi radios in Manchester, back in the days of PYE Cambridge's and Westminster, F27 and F30 base stations : )

 

I have checked the fluid in the reservoir and it was at the correct level.

 

I left the car for today because the weather in Mullion Cove today has been high winds and rain.

 

To put it on ramps so that I can remove the front and rear sensors safely and easily, I have to take it out of the garage.

 

I have read a posting on repairing the sensors so will try that first, I cannot find a seller of new ones online ?

 

Fitting a used one is not a good idea to me as you can never be sure they are any good.

 

Do you know if they are a continually variable device like a potentiometer, a multi way switch, or some kind of inductive device ?

 

God Bless Spiff

Edited November 12, 2017 by spiff

[coastline taxis]

start with the front end on ramp. remove the dog leg of the ride hieght sensor then start the engine. now manually move the ride hieght sensor and see if the car follows then try the rear sensor. also check  the switch inbetween the  seats as coffee and drinks get spilt onto them and can create a short  and put the suspension into a preferment setting.

[spiff]

Thank you for that, can you advise on how to get at the up down switch ?

 

It could save me a lot of prising : )

 

God Bless Spiff

[coastline taxis]

pull the plastic shroud of the bottom of the handbrake lever. put your fingers under the switch and push  up

[spiff]

Thank you very much.

 

I missed your reply at first as it was on the next page.

 

I have just purchased a used sensor in case, it can be resold if not the problem : )

 

Thank you again. God Bless Spiff

[Bry]

What was the End results