Why Does My Car Want To Drive In Circles?

[UVG]

Can anyone offer any suggestions on what is happening with my car. It seems to want to drive in circles and is wearing the shoulders of my tyres at a frightening rate

So quick history...

I changed both the track rod ends and did the usual and went to get the tracking checked at a local tyre centre
They drove it down the road and said “its fine mate doesn’t need doingâ€

3mths later both of my new front tyres are showing wires on the inside edges  :( 

Took it to a different tyre centre got it tracked and two new tyres
Ever since it wants to drive in circles... once the steering wheel has passed about halfway to full lock it stops trying to straighten out and tries to tighten up to full lock
If I let go of the wheel it will drive round in circles going all the way to full lock as quick as possible and you can hear the tyres scrubbing
I took it back and they checked the tracking saying it was fine. Some months later and the outside edges of my tyres are really starting to wear. I’ve taken it to a third tyre centre who have confirmed that the tracking is correct (about -1mm toe out which from what i can find on the forum appears to be correct)

I have now replaced the wish bone bushes and the ball joints and if anything its worse!!

I’m stuck I don’t know what causing this so I’m open to suggestions
Anyone had something similar?

In short HELP!

 

Thanks for any suggestions 

 

UVG

[coastline taxis]

steering rack. 

[paul.h]

Before the track rod ends were replaced did it also drive round in circles or has it only done it since then ? Was the steering wheel removed at all when setting up the tracking ? The tracking is supposed to be different on the C5 in that the front wheels are wider apart than the rear so if 4 wheel tracking is checked this needs to be allowed for. Rather than a tyre place I would prefer to use the Citroen dealer to set up the tracking. You can do a quick check to make sure it has been set up equally across both sides by ensuring the track rod threads are equal at each side.

 

According to the Citroen service box procedures the tracking should be set toe out at the front 0 to 3 mm with the correct tyre pressures, the car at the reference height and the steering rack set at its zero point.

 

The zero point is half the distance a track rod moves on the full lock to lock distance. You could put a mark on a track rod, move the steering to one full lock , measure the distance of the mark from a fixed point on the rack, turn to the opposite full lock, measure the distance again, divide the distance moved by 2 and then set up the rack by moving it to this distance so it is half way between the full locks.

 

For the reference heights, it looks as if the front subframe behind the wheel should be 140 mm below the centre of the wheel and the rear frame behind the rear sphere should be 68 mm above the wheel centre. Both are +/- 2 mm.

[UVG]

Hi guys

 

thanks for the info...

 

Paul all that measuring will take a bit of time (and weather) but i'll have a look

 

coastline i thought that too but i disconnected one of the track ends and there was no play of any kind...i'm hoping that its not the rack

 

i have wondered if its the rear wheel steering that is out of position and throwing off the geometry 

 

cheers 

 

UVG

[paul.h]

Was the problem there before you replaced the track rod ends ?

[UVG]

no it handled fine it was even handled ok after i had replaced the track rod ends

 

this only started once i had the tracking done and new tyres fitted ...

 

now the idea that its actually the tyres has occurred but doesnt really seem likely

[paul.h]

Sounds as if the tracking is wrong. Once the tyres are worn badly though it might not still steer right until they are replaced, but you could put the rear ones on the front. A check before waiting for bad wear to visibly show is to run your hands over the tread and if the treads are starting to feather it could be the tracking is out.

 

I once put cheap India tyres on a Maxi and in 5k miles they had worn down to the wires at the outside edges. They were replaced with better tyres which lasted around 15k miles without the bad wear. So if your tyres were cheap ones then it could explain the wear first time.

 

Probably the tracking was a bit out after replacing the track rod ends but then the place that adjusted it made a mess of it. I diy replaced a rack on a Saab and until it was tracked it would steer all over the place. The tyre place that did the tracking only adjusted it at one end so whilst the tracking was ok with the wheels staight ahead, once turned it was out. I then adjusted it myself so the number of threads on the track rods was the same at each side and then it was ok. After this experience I would never have a tyre place check or adjust the tracking, believing that unless a part is replaced or worn, the tracking does not change and if due to wear once the part is replaced the tracking should be ok (unless track rod ends).

[coastline taxis]

if they are rotation tyres check that they have been put on the correct way round

[UVG]

So Update at last...

the third tyre centre that i took it to was Kwik Fit but they only had a "normal" tracking rig

after the suggestions to get the full geometry checked i called a different Kwik Fit who had one of these machines

they advised that the check was free. costs were only incurred if changes had to be made...seemed reasonable

when they checked the tracking was quite literally off the scale

they corrected the tracking and replaced two back tyres (which definitely needed doing) and revealed me of £150 (which i thought was reasonable for the work done and tyres)

and now it steers like it should do. the only thing i can think off is that the bushes were so worn that standing still everything checked out fine but under load everything was out of line. once i replaced the bushes everything was held out of line even standing still and once this was corrected it all lines up and works as it should

the thrust line check also shows my OSR wheel was running just a little bit out of alignment Kwik Fits Technician said it was too small to worry about and there was no way to adjust it anyway

guess what... four month later and i have just replaced the swinging arm bearings after i started getting that clacking sound that signals they are on the way out

so its taken a while (nearly 2yrs) to get everything right and i will never use the original tyre centre again

thanks guys for your suggestions i hope my final results helps someone in the future

UVG

[paul.h]

Good to see you have managed to fix it. Something we have learnt from your experience is to replace any worn parts before adjusting the tracking. Were the worn parts picked up at the MOT tests ?

[UVG]

No Paul it sailed through its last test

everything looked fine

i had just run out of ideas so i thought just renew everything. cars done nearly 170K mls so figured it wouldn't hurt and it seems to have solved that problem

 

just as a side note it also appears to have solved the Yo-Yoing front suspension

the front end started hunting up and down when i was stopped last year 

i assumed height sensor so replaced it but it made no difference as it only did it when i was stationary i just lived with it

but since i changed all the bushes its never done it again...i suppose its all connected  :)

[paul.h]

Interesting comment on the yo-yoing, I will add this to the common problems topic.