Unbiased Opinion Poll , What Car ?

[Guest Ray]

Hi All ...

 

I now have a dilema as I own two cars but one has to go ! ..

 

2003 C5 HDI 2.2 auto 94,000 miles and a 2004 Mondeo 2.0ltr 130 bhp six speed 107.000 miles...

 

The problem is I like both cars and they both have good points and bad points , the C5 is smooth,comfortable and better equipt, but the mondeo is more economical , and pulls far better when towing..

 

What I am thinking of is long term, ie what will cost the most to maintain and run ?

 

I love the ride and comfort of the C5 but its a very complex car , where as the Mondeo is simple and straight forward..

 

I know this is a site for Citroens, but at the end of the day we are all motorists and I would really appreciate your comments and suggestions ...

 

Cheers guys

 

Ray ...

[Randombloke]

I know this is a site for Citroens, but at the end of the day we are all motorists and I would really appreciate your comments and suggestions ...

 

Big 100k bill on the horizon for the C5 auto, with cam belt and stuff to be done, and unless you are a very big Citroën fan the Mondeo is the one to keep, purely for the extra gears, power and economy.

[Guest Ray]

Hello mate ..

 

I hate to admit it but that`s occuring to me as well , I really do like the C5 , its like a Ghia ,and the mondeo is the base model , I have been quoted £250 for the cam belt job at 100,000 so that`s too bad , but what worries me is I`ve never owned a C5 unitl now so I haven`t a clue as to there realiability, I know fords only too well , and there ploders ...

 

I hope someone else will chip in with there comments as I will have to make a decision by the middle of next week ..

 

Cheers

Ray

[paul.h]

The problem here seems to be the C5 is an auto giving poorer fuel economy/performance. Why not sell both and get a manual C5 on a lower mileage.

[Guest Ray]

That`s not a bad idea but I hate selling cars at the best of times .......

Yeah the C5 is not as good on diesel as the Mondeo ,and yeah it doesn`t have the punch the Mondeo has , but for ride ,noise and comfort there`s only one car in contest, but its the overall picture , ie running costs and servicing etc that I have to consider ......

 

Ray .....

[72dudes]

That`s not a bad idea but I hate selling cars at the best of times .......

Yeah the C5 is not as good on diesel as the Mondeo ,and yeah it doesn`t have the punch the Mondeo has , but for ride ,noise and comfort there`s only one car in contest, but its the overall picture , ie running costs and servicing etc that I have to consider ......

 

Ray .....

 

I think you know the answer Ray. You probably need to give up the smoothness, comfort, low noise, gallic flair and individuality of the C5 if you want to avoid potentially expensive future maintenance and repair bills. Most garages can look after the Mondeo whereas you really need a good specialist or expensive dealer for the C5.

 

But I tend to agree with paul h, sell both and get a 2.0 HDi newer version with 138 bhp if you can afford it, if not an older 2.0 HDi 110 bhp version.

[Guest Ray]

Thanks guys for your comments ..............

I have to say its really hard making a decission as the C5 is such a lovely drive !! ...

In all my 38 years of driving , I have never had a car that just glides along the road this C5 does ,why Citroen had to make it so complicated is beyond me with all these stupid add on sensors , particle filters, eloys , etc ,the mondeo has none of this rubbish......

They have in my opinion made the C5 a possible nightmare waiting to happen ....

The suspension , engine and gearbox is great , thats all this car needs , dump all this other non-essential electrical gremlins and you would have a great car that could easily kick the butts of Fords.Vauxhalls etc .....

Sure the suspension could cause problems, but I haven`t read much about it going wrong ! , unlike the particle filter/eloys and sensor problems people seem to be having .....

 

My brain hurts,where`s the hedex ? . !

 

Cheers guys

 

Ray .......

[Guest Ray]

Decision made !!!!!!!!

 

I`m going to keep the C5 , so the Mondeo is up for sale ............

Now if the C5 becomes too expensive to run ,then a manual gearbox will be the answer !!

Although its not too bad at the moment , around 40 mpg so thats ok , but not as good as the Mondeo ..

 

Thanks for your comments ...

 

 

Ray

[myglaren]

Good choice!

 

I couldn't possibly have offered an unbiased opinion as I favour French cars and don't like Fords or Vauxhalls at all - for no good reason, I might add.

I've only had one Ford, a Fiesta and there was nothing at all wrong with it.

Same with Vauxhall, only had one - an Opel actually but same thing there, never cost me a penny and went well, still wouldn't buy either given the choice.

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the economy of my C5 compared to the Xantia but it is creeping up since I dosed it with Forte diesel system magicstuff and also using it for longer runs. The lead boots don't help of course.

[myglaren]

Double post. Sorry :(

[Guest Ray]

Well I hope I have made the right decision ,only time will tell ! ..

Its just the car is a real delight to drive and I just wished Citroen didn`t complicate them so much with all these stupid sensors all over the car , totally unnecessary in my opinion .....

Its got a good engine and suspension thats all it needs ...

 

Ray ....

[Randombloke]

Well I hope I have made the right decision ,only time will tell ! ..

Its just the car is a real delight to drive and I just wished Citroen didn`t complicate them so much with all these stupid sensors all over the car , totally unnecessary in my opinion .....

Its got a good engine and suspension thats all it needs ...

 

Ray ....

 

The good engine and suspension need some sort of electronics to modify their systems and actively control them. Additional pre/post injection can't easily be done with a purely mechanical system, nor can the 3/4/5 D mapping for fuel delivery be done by the Lucas pump fitted to most older XUD engines. Direct injection and active suspension control only really came of age with the right control systems.

 

Take away all the advances with ECU control of direct diesel injection, the extra power, the reduced emissions, the active control of suspension, the climate control in 2 zones and what are you left with? Sh1te old BX.

 

I have a BX with air con and 180k miles on the clock. It has no electronics at all. All it needs is a new cylinder head gasket. Sell the C5, buy sh1te old BX and with a £450 head skim and gasket it can be just like the old days..... yours for £500.....

 

If you think the C5 is unreliable then look at the SM or Mark 1 pre 91 XM.

 

The other thing to remember is that Citroën is purely a Peugeot research project in my view. All the innovations can be tried out without damaging the Peugeot marque. OTOH, people expect Citroën to be innovative. How they intend to do this with a Mk3 coil spring C5 is beyond me, but maybe in 6 years time you be able to buy an uncomplicated C5. Why bother? Buy a 407 instead. That's the same floor pan, but without all the best bits IMV.

[Guest Ray]

Randombloke, Well I guess that all engines need a management system to run it , but no all cars are so complicated as the C5 , my 2004 mondeo TDCI doesn`t have a particle filter , or some gunge to squirt into the system to clean it ! , so theres two things that I`m sure are not really needed unless you can say different .

Then theres the auto lights and wipers ! , erm its got switches and stalks to press/turn which I`ve done all my life, so why complicated it even more with more electronics to go wrong !

The suspension is probably one of the best in the world , but you don`t read many posts about that always going wrong like some of the above components I have mention above ..

 

And before you say why buy a C5 then , simple, I like the ride comfort and size , but not all the stupid gizmos.

 

P.S. , don`t want a xantia , too old ..

[Randombloke]

Randombloke, my 2004 mondeo TDCI doesn`t have a particle filter , or some gunge to squirt into the system to clean it ! , so theres two things that I`m sure are not really needed unless you can say different .

 

No, it didn't in 2004, but all new cars will have to have them soon, and Ford's diesel design is so good they are either buying Peugeot HDi units or working on a "co-operative" project. (They're buying units in and need to save face) PSA Peugeot Citroën were ahead of the game, and unfortunately of the two marques, Citroën is the try it out one..... Ford will run the dirtier diesels right up to the wire.....

 

Then theres the auto lights and wipers ! , erm its got switches and stalks to press/turn which I`ve done all my life, so why complicated it even more with more electronics to go wrong !

 

Auto lights - turn the option off. From memory, put key in the ignition, go accessories position, then hold end of lights stalk in until there is a beep or 6 seconds.

 

Auto wipers - simply do not use that position. Down for a quick sweep, position 2 is slow and position 3 is fast.

 

The suspension is probably one of the best in the world , but you don`t read many posts about that always going wrong like some of the above components I have mention above ..

 

You telling me? 250,000 miles in BXes then 20,000 so far in C5 :unsure:

 

Look at the heritage it has, DS, GS, SM, CX, BX, XM, Xantia, C5, C6!

 

OTOH, there is the Ford Mundane-O if you want? Only joking!!!!!

[Guest Ray]

No, it didn't in 2004, but all new cars will have to have them soon, and Ford's diesel design is so good they are either buying Peugeot HDi units or working on a "co-operative" project. (They're buying units in and need to save face) PSA Peugeot Citroën were ahead of the game, and unfortunately of the two marques, Citroën is the try it out one..... Ford will run the dirtier diesels right up to the wire.....

Auto lights - turn the option off. From memory, put key in the ignition, go accessories position, then hold end of lights stalk in until there is a beep or 6 seconds.

 

Auto wipers - simply do not use that position. Down for a quick sweep, position 2 is slow and position 3 is fast.

You telling me? 250,000 miles in BXes then 20,000 so far in C5 :unsure:

 

Look at the heritage it has, DS, GS, SM, CX, BX, XM, Xantia, C5, C6!

 

OTOH, there is the Ford Mundane-O if you want? Only joking!!!!!

 

I had a DS19 yonks ago , way ahead of its time back then , headlights that go around corners , self centering steering etc etc .. , good ride as well and it was uncomplicated , not much electric gadget stuff....

I love toys in cars but you can go over the top and I still think that with the C5 citroen have ....

I just hope I won`t need to take out a mortgage if it goes wrong !! , unitl that day its a pleasure driving it .

But if the oil barons( OPEC )keep limiting production and forcing the price up, nobody will be able to afford to drive anymore and the car will die ! .....

So enjoy the car and some freedom while we can !

[Guest C5KJJ]

:huh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Comparing a Mondeo with a C5, Duuuuuuuuuuh.

 

Can you really put the cars in the same bracket, i dont think so and ive had both, Mondeo as a company car with all the benefits of cheap fleet servicing, being one of millions on the roads daily.

 

Now the C5,that i own and am really happy with, a different ball game altogether, putting up with the whims of the computer ,telling you something is wrong every other day, but at the same time offering you comfort, super economy, individuality, reasons to increase your swear word library,!!.

 

To me its no contest, the C5 for me anyday of the week.

[Ronin]

You can't really compare both cars. The nearest thing ford made in comparison to the C5 was the Scorpio.

 

The C5 falls between two markets, family saloon and executive saloon. It has its own niche and does very well at both jobs. The C5 is totally different to my Alfa 156 even though they are similar in size.

All I can tell you after driving many mondeo's in the past is it can't compete for comfort, roadholding, economy(depending if you are comparing engine choice too). The only thing that the mondeo has the edge over is parts cost and working on them yourself. I was always expecting more from what a mondeo offered and was left wanting. then the next model would come out and would be just the same feeling.

 

Don't be under any illusion either that they are any more reliable than the C5 even though the C5 has it's foibles. Ask any mondeo owner how many front suspension bottom arms they have had replaced and you will get your answer. You may be a lucky owner but 95% aren't.

 

I think my grandfather put into words best about fords and I quote : "ford owners think they are reliable because a part that keeps breaking cost just a few quid and forget about it, If they were paying quite a bit more like other makes then they would actually remember how bad they really are"!

 

The bottom line is C5's have all the attributes of a luxury car for little money and when they do go wrong, they cost a bit more to fix due to complexity of them, thankfully this doesn't happen as often as people presume. It's often down to the gradual way the suspension starts to fail and can go unoticed if not checked regulary.

 

Mondeo's have many, many well documented problems but cost next to nothing to fix in comparison.

 

So your choice is: Do you want to drive to work in comfort or do you want to drive to work thinking this could be better, via the ford dealers to pick up yet another part of course?

 

I've tried to be impartial as possible but experience has taught me well.

 

I would also remember and this is know way meant to be taken the wrong way but.... The automatic version of the 2.2hdi is probably the worst combination of gearbox and engine in the C5 range. It was a big mistake IMO on citroen's part and should never have been mated together as it defeated the object of owning a diesel. It's like 6 speed gearboxes in all TD's! They waste the wide torque band a diesel naturally has and rely on raw bhp from the turbo boost instead. Trucks need lots of gears to handle 1000+ ftlbs of torque for pulling, not cars and was basically a gimmick.

The magic 6th gear offered no performance or economy increase over a 5 speed in a TD with drivers often changing down to overtake, 5 speed you don't have to.

The C5 2.2hdi manual is a rocket for what it is and much, much more economical + less to go wrong. I think you would find the manual would be a lot better to tow with, even better than the mondeo..... ask the caravan club!

My advice would be to sell both and invest in a newer manual 2.2hdi, you won't be dissapointed.

I wish you well in your choice.

[myglaren]

There was on thing that Ford did a few years ago that is more than likely discontinued.

 

When I was buying parts for my daughter's Fiesta, they had a system whereby for the life of the car or the duration of the ownership they would replace that part indefinitely if it broke in service.