Changing The Timing Belt, Is It A Diy Job?

[Hooo]

Hi

 

Just got my first car, a 2001 Xsara 2.0 HDi 90BHP. It's done 150k and there's no record of the timing belt being changed, so I gather it's something I should look into pretty soon.

Has anyone got any advice as to whether it's the sort of job I can do at home? Not worked on cars before, but I've done lots of work on bikes, including changing timing chains. These involved cutting the chain and riveting the new one in situ, so in comparison changing a belt looks reasonably straightforward....

The trouble is there's no Haynes for this model. Are there any instructions out there, or can I download an official manual? Can anyone offer advice on what I should look out for, or reasons why I shouldn't attempt it?

 

Thanks

H

[Jonno]

Hi

 

Just got my first car, a 2001 Xsara 2.0 HDi 90BHP. It's done 150k and there's no record of the timing belt being changed, so I gather it's something I should look into pretty soon.

Has anyone got any advice as to whether it's the sort of job I can do at home? Not worked on cars before, but I've done lots of work on bikes, including changing timing chains. These involved cutting the chain and riveting the new one in situ, so in comparison changing a belt looks reasonably straightforward....

The trouble is there's no Haynes for this model. Are there any instructions out there, or can I download an official manual? Can anyone offer advice on what I should look out for, or reasons why I shouldn't attempt it?

 

Thanks

H

Do you have access to locking tools to stop the pump, camshaft and crank turning? If you are going to change it yourself go for a reputable belt manufacturer like Gates and don't forget to change the tensioning rollers too. The cam belt kit is available for around £70 quid if i remember right, and fitting charges can differ quite dramatically between reccomended garages and main dealers if you go down that route average charges probably around £200 maybe for the whole job including belt and tensioner.

Maybe worth considering changing the water pump too while you have the opportunity (around £30 or less for a waterpump)

[Johndouglas]

The trouble is there's no Haynes for this model.

 

Have a look at Haynes number 3751. I know it only goes up to W reg but it does have a section on the 2litre HDI engine. My daughter's Xsara is a 2002 model and it's the one I use.

 

Whether or not you will find it possible to change the belt DIY, only you know your ability with the spanners. We've all got to have a first time. My first belt change was on a diesel BX some 16 years ago. The job seemed to go OK until I started the engine. Very clattery!!! Eventually discovered the pulleys were one tooth out. But that something learnt for next time.

 

You will have looked down the front of the engine. That's where the difficulty lies in the lack of room to work. Therefore it's necessary to have the sump supported on a jack so that the engine can be lowered or raised accordingly.

 

If you decide to DIY, do as Jonno suggests. Replace the water pump and tensioner pulley at the same time. I also consider it worth changing the auxiliary belt as well. Also look closely at the crankshaft pulley. They do begin to disintegrate.

[Hooo]

Have a look at Haynes number 3751. I know it only goes up to W reg but it does have a section on the 2litre HDI engine. My daughter's Xsara is a 2002 model and it's the one I use.

 

I've just bought that Haynes on ebay, and I'm waiting for it to arrive. I didn't realise it had the 2.0 HDi in it, that will make things a lot easier. I assume it has instructions for the timing belt? I'll read through and decide if I'm up to the job.

I've done a bit of browsing round and I get the impression that the locking tools are just 8mm bolts? The other impression I get is that getting the belt tension correct is critical. How difficult is this without specialist tools?

[Hooo]

Got my Haynes today, and it all looks straightforward, apart from one thing.

The book says that the belt tension has to be done with an electronic tool, and the tension is specified in SEEM units. I can't justify buying an electronic tool, but there's mechanical ones like the Facom DM 16 available on ebay. Has anyone used one of these, and do you know where I can find a conversion table?

[kfk]

[techbod]

http://groups.msn.com/techbod/general.msnw...mp;all_topics=0

 

not sure if it will work

[Johndouglas]

I can't justify buying an electronic tool, but there's mechanical ones like the Facom DM 16 available on ebay. Has anyone used one of these,

 

I have a mechanical Burroughs gauge - also bought off eBay and which uses the Newton scale. I use the Autodata conversion chart which is the one Kfk has reproduced. Having used the gauge, I try it with the time-honoured thumb and finger twist :) Come back the XUD auto-tensioner!

[Hooo]

Thanks for all the help. I talked to a mechanic friend and he said they never bother with gauges, just thumb and finger. The only trouble with this method is it takes practice, so you need someone to check it for you the first few times.

I Googled the Burroughs gauge, and it looks good, but I can't find anyone selling them. At least with kfk's chart, once I find a gauge I'll be able to use it.

 

Thanks

 

H

[techbod]

ahhh the old days when none of these fancy toys were about this is what I used ( it might sound silly but it does the same thing ) for pennies,

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

 

infact I still have it ;)

[Hooo]

ahhh the old days when none of these fancy toys were about this is what I used ( it might sound silly but it does the same thing ) for pennies,

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

 

infact I still have it :o

 

That's what I thought I'd use, before I found out about all these SEEM and Burroughs gauges!

How do you use it though? I assume you measure the belt deflection for a specific force, but how do you get those two figures from a SEEM number?

[techbod]

it depends on what a seem number is based but I would say its based on pressure over a given distance ( the tool has 2 points where it contacts the belt and the measurement is taken in the center of those points ) so there must be a multiplier to convert that,

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&s...rts&spell=1

[Hooo]

it depends on what a seem number is based but I would say its based on pressure over a given distance ( the tool has 2 points where it contacts the belt and the measurement is taken in the center of those points ) so there must be a multiplier to convert that,

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&s...rts&spell=1

 

That sounds right to me, but I've done some Googling on it and found a few people asking the same question but noone with the answer......

 

Another option that looks like it might work for me is to set it so it seems OK, then drive it round the corner and get my local garage to check it for peace of mind.

[Guest Terryd]

That sounds right to me, but I've done some Googling on it and found a few people asking the same question but noone with the answer......

 

Another option that looks like it might work for me is to set it so it seems OK, then drive it round the corner and get my local garage to check it for peace of mind.

I suggest you use the existing belt tension as a guide to what you need to achieve. Measure the deflection for a given spring balance load and you will not be far away for the same with the new belt. It is certainly more scietific than doing it by feel.

As above, get the full kit with a new waterpump and change the auxillary belt as well. The hardest bit was the crankshaft bolt torque. It is difficult to hold the crank and get the 89 deg after initial torque. I had the benefit of an air wrench which made the job easy (marked it out before applying the torque).

You don't lock the injector pump on a common rail diesel.

I expect there are many mechanics out there who cope without a belt tensioning device.

As you say, it was easy with the XUD but the performance from the DW10 is far superior.

I say it is a DIY job but as always, if it the first, it will appear to be hard. If you have done an XUD before then I see no problem.

Hope this helps

[kfk]

The problem with using the old belt tension as a guide is that it has potentially done 100,000 miles and become slack due to age.

 

If you fit a belt under the method you describe how slack will your new belt be in 100,000 miles.....in fact will it get that far before it causes you problems?

 

Ultimately its a job you dont want to be worrying if you have done it right.....and you definately dont want it failing on you 18 months after you have fitted it because you took a short cut.

[Hooo]

The problem with using the old belt tension as a guide is that it has potentially done 100,000 miles and become slack due to age.

 

Yes, I did think of measuring the tension of the existing belt, but came to that conclusion. The old belt has either done around 50k if it was changed, or 150k if it hasn't. Either way I'm not going to want to set a new belt to the same tension.

My mechanic friend gave me a tip - check if the belt is a genuine Citroen one. If it's not, then it's definitely been changed at some point after 90k and I don't need to worry about it. The only trouble is that the printing on the belt has almost worn off, and I can't make any of it out. I certainly can't see a manufacturer, just some vague numbers. The printing is in blue, does that sound familiar to anyone? Do Citroen print in blue?

[techbod]

Citroen don't make timing belts! Gates do and also the full timing kit and updated after 1998 due to failed tensioners ( if in doubt change it ) and consider the water pump while your in there

[Guest Terryd]

The problem with using the old belt tension as a guide is that it has potentially done 100,000 miles and become slack due to age.

As I understand it, timing belts have minimal stretch in them over their service life. The glass fibre cords are designed that way hence the need to prevent crimping or nicks to the belt which damages the glass fibre cords. Any views on this?

 

Timing belts are the preferred choice over chains as the non stretch properties maintain accurate timing.

 

Intermediate inspection is probably more important and is probably seldom done. I expect it is only done when purchasing a second hand car as the service history may be unreliable, especially when you don't know if the tensioner pulleys or water pump has been changed.

[kfk]

in the days when vehicles were fitted with manual belt tensioners....bx, zx etc....at 72,000 miles you could slidethe old belt off without slackening the tensioners......you would find it nigh on impossible to get he new one on using the same method though.

 

Thing is.....if you took it to the local citroen dealer you would expect the job done properly.....correct?....so where is the benefit in doing it yourself without the correct tension and wondering if it will be ok or for how long it will be ok?

 

A replacement belt should last the same duration as one fitted at the factory.....if it isnt tensioned correctly it wont last the duration and there is no knowing when it will need changing next....not to mention overtightning the belt will cause premature failure of tensioners and water pump.

[martin555]

hello there , citroen user folks ! :unsure:

 

I need advice in the following.

 

the car is : Citroen XSARA II 1,6 16v petrol (code TU5JP4)

built 2002.04 I am the first owner.

 

so, it is 6 years old, 75.000 km.

 

till now: servicing ONLY oil changed + the filters.

 

I am thinking now in changing the TIMING BELT , water pump + tensioning ,,etc.. things.

 

QUESTIONS:

 

1.: which timing belt do you recommend? I read a lot good things about brand "GATES".

 

2.: should I buy GATES timing belt KIT with the tensioning etc. stuffs too?

 

3.: or different brand of the tensioning things? which? (SNR, SKF, RUWILLE etc. FEBI..)

 

4.: which brand of WATER PUMP?

 

5.: I guess for xsara there is NO electronic water pump like in BMW, right?

 

6.: should I fix / change anithing more ? or just the belt, tensioning + pump (remember, 6 years old, 75.000 km)

 

7.: HOW difficult is to set the BELT tightness AND WHAT ARE THE DANGERS of it when not set properly???

 

8.: MANY THANKS TO ANYONE PLS reply me in this case.

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

Martin, from Hungary (EU)

[tomblyth]

Hi Martin

you should put this in its own post the hdi owner will be looking at it where it is the petrol owners may not read it! I'd say you need to change anything with a pully that is run by the belt ! I used a continenlal (contibelt) yesterday when I changed mine! my only advise would be to mark the belt and sprockets with tipex before you remove them and trasfer the marks to the new belt, his gives you a check that you have done it right! and after you have changed it turn the engine half a dozen times buy hand to make sure you fell confident all is well before starting the engine!

 

If you get it wrong your looking at the potential of bent valves and damaded head/pistons

 

part from here europarts are always good quality and well priced?

Tom