2003 C8 - Timing Belt - Car Going To The Grave

[Guest Pam C8]

Have sent off an email to Robert Parry at VOSA this evening so await his response. Will keep you posted. Have drafted the message that I intend sending to Watchdog, Raw Deal and Top Gear but havent had a chance to complete it and send it as yet. That's tomorrow nights mission ......

[Guest Pam C8]

Robert.Parry@vosa.gov.uk has now sent me a copy of the Vehicle Safety Defect Report form which I will complete and return to VOSA. I urge anyone that has a defect that potentially puts you at risk, to contact Robert and get a copy of this report, complete it and return it. I tried copying it to a reply here but I cant find an option to attach a file...

[Guest Pam C8]

Thats the forms and emails away to VOSA (robert.parry@vosa.gov.uk), Raw Deal (rawdeal@sundaypost.com) in the Sunday Post and Watchdog (watchdog@bbc.co.uk). Just need to wait and see now if they can assist.

 

Spoke to the garage on Thursday - they have re-built my engine twice now and both times, when started, it ran for 5 mins and then cut out. They are going to attempt it one last time after holidays and if they cant get it working then they will be asking me to go and pick it up and tow it to the scrap yard and settle my outstanding account. Dont have a figure on the account as yet. The Service Manager has been fantastic. At the last review the invoice was at £1300 or thereabouts. He said that if he were to charge me the full amount re labour they had spend building/taking apart the engine twice - it would be more than the car is worth. I cant even bear to think about what the final amount is going to be... just think I could be having to tow my car to the scrap yard and still pay citroen thousands..... doesnt seem very fair to me !

 

Anyway, I have also been back to speak to trading standards and Consumer Direct following the further information people had provided here re the water from the windshield hitting the cambelts etc. and they have said that if I can get concrete evidence/information that this was a fault in the 2003-2005 models then they will speak with Citroen. I am also getting an independant assessor out to look at the car and produce a report. It will cost me over £100 but could save me thousands in the long run.

 

So, thats the update .... if anyone has other information about the possible design fault and water from the windshield hitting the cambelt (possible causing premature corrosion) then please please post it here. Also, if anyone know about the possible recall notices about this same issue that went out on the continent but not here - again please post here.

 

Heck, I must sound like a woman possessed on here now about this flippin car etc. I just feel really hard done to and think Citroen should be taking some responsibility and paying the bill. I'll be glad when the whole unfortunate business and encounter with Citroen is over!

 

Many thanks.

[Guest RedGreenBlue]

Pam,

did Border Engines say how they managed to get the injectors out?

 

This might help a lot of people who have the same problem e.g.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ind...f=2&t=68332

[Guest RedGreenBlue]

P.S. the only real evidence that Peugeot/Citroen know about the problem is the part 8248.71. Did you look at the pdf I posted a link to earlier on?

[mark17]

Hi Pam

 

I have had the cambelt snap on my C8 last week and been given the "needs a new engine" spiel from Citroen.

 

I think going down the safety route is a good line of attack as my C8 failed at 70mph on the motorway with my wife, 4 year old daughter and 3 year old nephew on board.

 

Its a 2004 2.0 HDI with 61,500 miles. Please feel free to read my thread on -

 

honest john/back room/discussions/2004 2.0 HDI snapped cambel at 61,500miles mark17.

(sorry - don't know how to put in a proper link yet!! :rolleyes:)

 

Good luck, and I'm looking forward to the outcome. :)

[Guest Pam C8]

To REDGREENBLUE - sorry, but I'm an absolute straw head when it comes to technology. I tried opening your pdf and it took me to the Eurovan site. I tried registering but I've hit a few technical issues which I'm trying to iron out. If you could cut and paste any information from that site into here so I could read it re the part 8248.71 I would really appreciate it. <_<

 

To Mark17 - sorry to hear about your problems too but please keep fighting Citroen to get a proper result.

 

My local garage called me today to say that after 3 attempts at dismantling and rebuilding my engine, they have finally managed to get it working and back on the road. Hurrah I hear you shout! That was great news.. means I can now go get it, drive it off their forecourt and straight to another garage to trade it in. However, there was a bit of bad news.... the final invoice is £4995.11 :angry:

 

On a positive note, Raw Deal are making 'enquiries' on my behalf and it did prompt another letter from Citroen. They are still refusing to assist but I'm not finished with them yet.

 

I have an independent assessor going out to the car tomorrow to write a report for me so hopefully that will support a case further.

 

I've also been emailing scouseart@aol and he has a dossier of 20+ owners now that have had this problem. I'm sure he would like to hear from anyone else that has had a broken cambelt.

 

Not had a response from Watchdog as yet. Didnt manage to find an email address for Top Gear so didnt contact them. Have not heard back from Rob Parry at VOSA as yet. My local trading standards office have also said that they are willing to look into this and would be quite happy to contact Citroen - so that is my next step.

 

The saga/battle continues !

 

Please keep the info and similar stories coming in here !

 

Kind regards

Pam

[Guest RedGreenBlue]

I can email you a copy or scouseart can probably send one. You could send your email to r_gary_burgess@hotmail.com.

 

Assuming it is a real Peugeot document and I can't think of any reason it is not, it is probably the best evidence that PSA Peugeot Citroen knew that there was a design problem affecting the cambelt. Also the redesign after 2005 to divert water is also evidence that they knew of the problem.

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

Hello Pam,

Guess what happened to me yesterday?

I have 2005 C8 48k on clock and no cambelt .I have a full service history ,although not all of it with the dealership,its miles away.

At the moment i have a Citron that would make a good conservatory and nothing else.

We go into bat with Citron on Monday any thoughts?

Regards Fiona

 

 

 

Hi. A new member to the site and just looking for some advice, similar stories or any assistance for that matter that would help me in a very distressing situation.

I bought a 2003 (Mar) C8 second hand in Jan 06. Since then I have had lots of little, annoying issues/problems with the car but nothing too serious. Not until August 11th this year that is !!!

 

That was the day my timing belt went ping ! To cut a very very long story short.... 3 weeks later and my car is still in the garage. As 2 injectors are stuck in the cylindar head it is not possible to fix/repair/rebuild the old engine so I am now facing the prospect of putting in a new cylindar head or complete new exchange engine from Citroen at costs of approximately £6500/£7000. I think the current value of the car is about £4500 so I dont think it makes financial sense to throw thousands of pounds at it to get it fixed. I have spoken to various solicitors/consumer advice people and as at todays date, I have no come back on either the garage I bought it from or Citroen! I face paying for all the repairs out of my own pocket or scrapping the car. I owe the garage about £1500 already and that is just for labour costs to take out the engine and determine the damage to date. They will only offer me £1000 (trade in) for the car in its current (broken) state. And to top it all, I still owe £4k on a loan for the car (personal loan not HP)! Can the day get any better ???? :-)

 

The car has circa 57k miles on the clock and is just over 5 yrs old. The maintenance manual states that the timing belt should last until about 75/80k miles and/or 10 years old so I am way short of those.

 

The car is out of warranty and I have a full service history albeit not a Citroen one but fully stamped and up to date.

 

As the garage that I bought the car from has changed hands - I have no come back on them

Citroen will not assist or make any goodwill payment as the car is over (just) 5 years old

Citroen advise that the maintenance manual levels/age for replacing the timing belt is only a guide and not a guarantee so I cant take any course of action in that department!

 

Has anyone experienced a similar problem with their C8 or citroen car or does any one have advice as to how I might pursue this... any advice would be appreciated because I am at my wits end with this and facing massive financial costs... not to mention the grey hairs that have sprouted !

[Guest RedGreenBlue]

Firstly, send an email to robert.parry@vosa.gov.uk and get the the "Vehicle Safety Defect Report" and complete it and send it back. If Citroen are asked to investigate by VOSA then they cannot claim ignorance of the problem.

 

Raise the issue with Citroen and get the reference number to include in the VSDR.

 

Your car is not long past the 3 year warranty, and if it has a full service history with a recent Citroen delership service and you have taken it to a Citroen dealership for the repair, then you have some chance of getting some goodwill from Citroen (assuming the delearship will fight for it). They probably will not agree to anything until you have paid to have it investigated i.e. the engine out etc, and they cannot find any other excuse not to contribute.

 

Are you the original owner or did you buy it from a reputable trader/garage/dealer? You might have some protection under the sale of goods act.

 

How did the garage work out the quote for £2500? Assuming it is a diesel, do they know that the injectors will probably be impossible to get out and therefore it may require a new cylinder head or engine (so it could cost £4k to £7k). If they have no experience with similar problems on the c8/807/ulysse, then it will probably be a long and costly repair. Try and find a garage that has done this before and had some success getting the injectors out.

 

I hope it goes well, but be prepared for a fight.

 

See

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ind...f=2&t=68332

www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurovan2-general/5969-cam-belt-replacement.html

www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurovan2-general/7279-cambelt-snapped.html

www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurovan2-general/6866-ev2-c8-hdi-distribution-belt.html

www.reviewcentre.com/review173061.html

www.reviewcentre.com/reviews85450.html

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...25103226AAIhTy4

[Guest Pam C8]

Fiona - sorry to hear that you are suffering a Citroen too!

I've tried to keep this site updated with all the avenues and things I have tried so that other people might benefit in some way. As REDGREENBLUE advised, it is key that you contact VOSA and emphasise how dangerous a situation you were put in when the belt broke. As I've noted above, I also wrote to Raw Deal (Sunday Post Newspaper here in Scotland), Watchdog and VOSA. Raw Deal did contact Citroen but not much progress, not heard back from Watchdog and VOSA have requested a joint investigation with Citroen. I still havent been to collect my car and pay the final invoice as yet cause I also got Consumer Direct and Trading Standards involved to see if they could assist. They have been making enquiries but I dont think they are going to be able to do any thing for me. I need to phone Trading Standards back tomorrow. I've also told the garage that I dont have £5000 to pay them and asked if they would buy the car from me or sell it on my behalf. They're not keen to do that. The best deal they can give me is to offer me a 54 plate picasso on finance over 5 years. I pay it back over 5 years, they take my car and I dont have to pay the Service Dept the £5000. However, that means I need to take finance out for another car whilst still paying off my existing loan of £4000 that I still have outstanding for the C8. I've got to sit down tonight and try and get my head around all this..whats my best way forward that is not going to cost me an arm and a leg cause I am really struggling financially just now :o But I need to think fast because my local garage are going to charge me £50 per day storage if I dont get my car out of their way or settle the account (somehow).

 

I think you may have a better chance of getting Citroen to make a goodwill payment because my local garage had another C8 in at the same time as mine with the same problem - it was a September 04 plate and between the garage and Citroen, that owner only had to pay about 10% of the final costs of repair - about £650 I think it was. So if they offer you 90% ....take it !

 

I also called the Scottish Motor Trade Association up here.. unfortunately Citroen are not a member of it so I couldnt chase them via that route. You could see if there is an equivalent in England and whether or not they are a member.

 

I also have a report coming from an independent assessor regarding the premature breaking of the cam belt.. Not sure if that will strengthen my case any cause Citroen know the belt broke prematurely but still accept no liability or responsibility.

 

I wish you luck....

 

Some other advice - keep a note of dates/times, who you are speaking to etc cause after a few weeks of 'discussions' it gets confusing with all the scraps of notes etc. My car has now been in the garage some 13 weeks (come Monday) and I have a folder full of paper!

 

As REDGREENBLUE suggested - you should also get in touch with scouseart@aol.co.uk as he is keeping a note of people who have had the same problem - when I spoke to him last, his tally was at 20 +

 

Like I've said before, as loan voices Citroen are not listening to us but as a group of people, maybe they will take note.

 

Please let me know if I can provide you with any other information or help in any way.

Good luck .... Pam

[Guest Pam C8]

It sticks in my throat that I had to eventually go with the Picasso. It's been one heck of an expensive lesson that I have had to learn here. The C8 fiasco has probably cost me over £10,000. I still have £4000 to pay on the loan, I put £4000 cash towards it when I bought it, I had £1500 to pay for the repair (after they deducted £3500 as part exchange for the C8) and £340 to get the injectors drilled out. So for the next 3 years at least I will be paying 2 car loans.. the old one for the C8 and the new one for the Picasso...a total of £257 per month! I realise that may not seem a lot to some but its one heck of a big chunk out of a single parents monthly wage... any parents monthly wage !

 

Financially, I can not let this one go. I must keep trying to get some justice and get some money back from Citroen. If anyone has information or experiences with Citroen that they think may help me then please put your information here.. thanks

[Guest Pam C8]

I'm back....

I have been away licking my wounds for a little while and also trying to get organised for Christmas (on a hugely reduced budget thanks to Citroen which I'm sure my little girl will not appreciate!). Anyway, I don't want to lose momentum on this so I'm back to try another few things before we all get involved with Christmas.

I have been thinking about all this C8 business (well, I go over it and over it again in my head every day) and have come up with an idea........

Thanks to people supplying very useful information on this site... I have learned that there was potentially a design fault in the 2003 -2005 C8 models whereby water run off from the windshield, would run into the engine cavity and hit the cambelt and other workings around it....perhaps causing early corrosion to the cambelt.

 

Now, I also understand the the 2006 models have a scuttle panel fitted to divert the water away from the cambelts and other working parts.............so.............I came up with the idea of getting photos taken from a 2003 model (without the scuttle panel) and a 2006 or 2007 model WITH the scuttle panel fitted..........thereby evidencing that there was a design fault (hence the need to fit the scuttle panel in later models).

 

So.....I'm looking for volunteers please.

 

Is anyone willing to photograph their engines for me ? I know this sounds absolutely mad but the local Citroen dealer knows me here now so I cant go asking to look under the bonnets of cars with a camera !

 

I also dont want to wander around Asda car park looking for C8 owners and politely asking them if I can look under their bonnets..... I can well imagine the response !

 

I am therefore turning to C8 owners who may read this to help me out...PLEASE !

 

Obviously I am going to need the photo to show the engine but also, somehow, show the age/year of your car. I'm not asking for your full registration plate to be on view in the photo but perhaps just the first bit as this shows the year of manufacture?

 

Anyone willing to help me please put a note on here or send me a personal message and hopefully we can link up via email etc.

 

I would be very much obliged if someone could please help

 

Thanks Pam

[rayvito]

:rolleyes:

Hi. A new member to the site and just looking for some advice, similar stories or any assistance for that matter that would help me in a very distressing situation.

I bought a 2003 (Mar) C8 second hand in Jan 06. Since then I have had lots of little, annoying issues/problems with the car but nothing too serious. Not until August 11th this year that is !!!

 

That was the day my timing belt went ping ! To cut a very very long story short.... 3 weeks later and my car is still in the garage. As 2 injectors are stuck in the cylindar head it is not possible to fix/repair/rebuild the old engine so I am now facing the prospect of putting in a new cylindar head or complete new exchange engine from Citroen at costs of approximately £6500/£7000. I think the current value of the car is about £4500 so I dont think it makes financial sense to throw thousands of pounds at it to get it fixed. I have spoken to various solicitors/consumer advice people and as at todays date, I have no come back on either the garage I bought it from or Citroen! I face paying for all the repairs out of my own pocket or scrapping the car. I owe the garage about £1500 already and that is just for labour costs to take out the engine and determine the damage to date. They will only offer me £1000 (trade in) for the car in its current (broken) state. And to top it all, I still owe £4k on a loan for the car (personal loan not HP)! Can the day get any better ???? :-)

 

The car has circa 57k miles on the clock and is just over 5 yrs old. The maintenance manual states that the timing belt should last until about 75/80k miles and/or 10 years old so I am way short of those.

 

The car is out of warranty and I have a full service history albeit not a Citroen one but fully stamped and up to date.

 

As the garage that I bought the car from has changed hands - I have no come back on them

Citroen will not assist or make any goodwill payment as the car is over (just) 5 years old

Citroen advise that the maintenance manual levels/age for replacing the timing belt is only a guide and not a guarantee so I cant take any course of action in that department!

 

Has anyone experienced a similar problem with their C8 or citroen car or does any one have advice as to how I might pursue this... any advice would be appreciated because I am at my wits end with this and facing massive financial costs... not to mention the grey hairs that have sprouted !

[rayvito]

:(

Hi pam i had the same thing happen to my c8 with 200,000 on the clock it cost me £1500 all together the engine has to come out for the injectors to be removed the mech has to be care in how he takes the injectors has they can snap i had new cam followers and valves cam belt and tensioner if u go down this line make sure u get a confirmed cost before starting hope thishelps thanks ray :rolleyes: B)

[Guest Pam C8]

Hi Rayvito - thanks for your advice. The repair is all done and dusted and it cost me £5000. I couldnt afford to pay it so the local garage gave me £3500 on the C8 and i had to pay the other £1500 on finance, along with a Picasso. I am just out of steam at the moment re the battle with Citroen and off licking my wounds. Once I feel a bit refreshed though, I will be back to fight another day!

 

Thanks again though for taking the time to offer me some advice.. appreciated

[Guest Pam C8]

Hi

 

I am back on the case again... still licking my wounds but realise I cant let this alone until I have done everything I can to try and get some justice.

 

I am just wondering if anyone who submitted a VOSA report about a fault on a Citroen car, more specifically the C8 cambelt issue, has had a response as yet?

 

If you have had a response and you are willing to share the findings of the investigation, can you please send me a personal message please?

 

Would be much appreciated

Thanks

Pam

[mark17]

Hi

 

I am back on the case again... still licking my wounds but realise I cant let this alone until I have done everything I can to try and get some justice.

 

I am just wondering if anyone who submitted a VOSA report about a fault on a Citroen car, more specifically the C8 cambelt issue, has had a response as yet?

 

If you have had a response and you are willing to share the findings of the investigation, can you please send me a personal message please?

 

Would be much appreciated

Thanks

Pam

[CE08LDB]

What model Picasso did you get after Pam? Hope you get more luck with this car and that you get what your owed on the C8 I wish you the best of luck.

[Guest Pam C8]

Hi CE08LDB

Thanks for your message.

It was a Picasso Desire Petrol 1.6 that I ended up getting. I reserve judgement on this Citroen car. When I got it from the garage it ran like a dream. Having had a diesel with the C8 and returning to the Petrol Picasso I used to think that the engine had cut out on me when I stopped at traffic lights - it was that quiet and smooth. That said, only had it since November and it is now sounding a little rough..... you can feel the engine 'chugging' now when you stop at lights... I'm not even going to begin to wonder what that is all about and certainly not bore the pants off everyone here about it. I think my saga about the C8 has put folk to sleep by now ! Lets just say, if anything goes wrong with the Picasso I am going to go through Citroen like a dose of salts (as they say!)

 

Re the C8 thought - I'm like that bad penny that keeps turning up on here with another nag about Citroen !

 

Sorry folks... but I am a woman on a mission here !

[Guest Pam C8]

I am still trying to find evidence that Citroen started fitting a scuttle panel in the 2006 models. to divert water away from the cambelt area. If you have any pictures or reference material that would help me evidence this I would really appreciate you getting in touch.. If you are not comfortable posting a reply in here for everyone to see then please send me a personal message. Thanks very much.

[Guest Pam C8]

I have been contacted by another person who has had a similar problem and has information that could help all C8 owners who have experienced this cambelt problem. Bearing in mind the C8, Peugeot 807 and the Fiat Ullyses are all basically the same car. Peugeot have a recall notice on their model to fit a scuttle panel above the cambelt and seemingly Fiat have just settled with a customer and admitted there was a fault with their model for the very same reason. Surely to goodness Citroen are going to have to follow a similar course of action and accept responsibilty. There is too much evidence emerging now that suggests there was in fact a design fault with these cars. For that reason alone, I intend to keep pursuing this.

 

I have also now photographed the engine cavity of a C8 2006 model and there is a new panel fitted above the cambelt housing. So why why why wont Citroen admit there was a problem with the 2003-2005 models and take responsibility here.

 

I now feel that I have just about gathered enough further evidence to take this back to the likes of trading standards, watchdog etc to see if they too agree I have a case to argue. Hopefully they will back me up and help me out.

[Guest Pam C8]

I watched Watchdog tonight (8th Oct) with interest when another car manufacturer was under the spotlight for making owners pay to replace faulty or broken parts in their cars which they knew were faulty. During the programme they contacted Watchdog to say that they would significantly reduce the amount owners would need to pay to get the faulty part replaced. With that in mind...let me give you anonther scenario.... someone owns a 2003 C8 model and their cambelt breaks (just over 5 yrs old and approx 57K on the clock). Discovers that this may have been due to a design fault because the 2006 models actually have a scuttle panel fitted to divert water away from the cambelt housing.. do you think Citreon would admit responsibilty and make some kind of payout?

Oh and Fiat and Peugeot have both seemingly acknowledged the fault in the Ulyses and 807 models which, incidentally, are practically the same car as the Citreon C8... Mmmm.. makes you wonder eh ! Citreon - if you're watching ...I'm open to offers of compensation ???

[techbod]

Citroen is just a name because it went out of business many years ago and taken over by PSA group so what ever they did to resolve this problem also covers peugeot/Renault/Citroen and guess what FIAT and many more ( think PSA rather than the badge on the car ) :D

[Guest Pam C8]

Thanks Techbod ! Sometimes we can get so blinkered by the name. Very interesting to hear that one name owns them all ...fiat, citroen and peugeot. That gives me another route to explore... when I get a minute over Christmas. Really appreciate all the assistance you have given me on here Techbod..has been really useful. I still chip away at this every so often but its hard work and very frustrating. Do you know if there is a time limit to me getting anywhere with this? I am just conscious that it is over a year now since my timing belt broke and all this sorry saga began. I guess they (Citroen/PSA) just hope you eventually give up and go away and not try and pursue them for some sort of compensation.

 

If anyone knows if there are time limits on this sort of thing, I would appreciate some info.

 

Many thanks