C5 1.8 16v Starting Woes ! ?

[Ronin]

Hi it's not Ronin but i'm his brother in law, John. Ronin sold his 1.8 C5 and drives a new alfa 159 3.2 Q4 now and is very happy with it, lucky sod :rolleyes:.

Anyway back to the issue. Ron is at a loss as to what the problem is with my C5 and advised me to ask you guys for help so apologies for using his account (i don't have a PC you see) <_< .

 

It's an intermittent problem, most of the time the car will start at the first turn of the key and then after a day of regular starting or so it will turn over quite happily but no chance of starting. Ron thinks its an immobiliser issue as the fuel pump charges on ignition and the fuel pressure to the injectors is ok. He confirmed this by testing this at the fuel pressure valve on the rail.

 

The funny thing is that the car will start from a bump start right away when it plays up, I know ! Ron has told me not to keep doing this as it can screw things up further. Eventually after a lot of head scratching and cursing we have figured out that if I relock the car up, leave it for 20 minutes and have a cup of tea then go back out and unlock it the car starts up again with no problem..... Very confusing but it's not very practical to keep doing that as you can imagine sometimes I need to use the car right away.

 

I bought the car from an auction at haste about a year ago very cheap at £450 on a 01 plate but it only had one key, no fob just a manual key that unlocks the doors and turns ignition.

The alarm/ central locking works ok still with it though.

Any advice would be most welcome as now I'm getting very frustrated with it.

Thanks for reading... Ronin says hello BTW and hope you are all well.

[Ronin]

Ok, I guess this is a tough one to diagnose with the limited info available. We don't have a code reader and i've just been laid off so cant afford expensive garage bills if I can help it and fix it myself.

Ron has suggesting trying a BSI (Battery negative) reset proceedure however there is a lot of conflicting info regarding what is the correct way to do this and especially how do you do it with just a normal ignition key and no fob key available.... i.e. holding the central locking button down for ten seconds on the key fob etc.?

 

Any ideas guys, please I need someone to suggest a place to start looking;)

Thnks in advance.

[coastline taxis]

Ok, I guess this is a tough one to diagnose with the limited info available. We don't have a code reader and i've just been laid off so cant afford expensive garage bills if I can help it and fix it myself.

Ron has suggesting trying a BSI (Battery negative) reset proceedure however there is a lot of conflicting info regarding what is the correct way to do this and especially how do you do it with just a normal ignition key and no fob key available.... i.e. holding the central locking button down for ten seconds on the key fob etc.?

 

Any ideas guys, please I need someone to suggest a place to start looking;)

Thnks in advance.

Hi does it do it when hot aswell as cold could we be looking at a cold start issue. if you havent got the fob key you will be dependend on the door lock to engage/disengage the imobiliser and with the door locks not bieng that reliable it could be that it sometimes opens the door but dosent take the imobiliser of. so maybe try removing the door panel and cleaning everything with brake/contact cleaner or if you can dont lock the car for a few days to see if it goes away.

not saying it is that but its a start

 

ps

have you contacted the previous owner to see if they have the key or no what the fault is as thats why it might of been in the auctions

[techbod]

sounds like ive been down this street once before ( cold start issue ) but without any fault codes its only going to be guessing so im not going to list the many causes like coolant temp sensor cough plus many other possibles,

 

things to consider

you cranked the car and it failed to start so you left it for a while and it started? you have altered the cold start issue because something was energised or fuel pressure pumped up? so look for cold start system ( they all have them ) different for many makes of car from a cold start injector to a wax stat

[Randombloke]

so look for cold start system ( they all have them ) different for many makes of car from a cold start injector to a wax stat

 

Looks like cold start on this is decided by the inlet temperature and coolant temperature. I can't see any wax stat or extra injector for cold. If it will bump start then we can rule out the immobiliser.

 

I'd check very thoroughly all the wires under the bonnet. Connectors all well made and clean? Make 100% sure it's not an ignition fault. Could it be a problem with the crankshaft position sensor? My Montego had almost exactly the same fault and this was the culprit in the end.

 

The system for the 1.8 petrol is a Sagem S2000 system. Maybe this might help in Googling for problems with it starting.

 

Good luck.

[coastline taxis]

Looks like cold start on this is decided by the inlet temperature and coolant temperature. I can't see any wax stat or extra injector for cold. If it will bump start then we can rule out the immobiliser.

 

I'd check very thoroughly all the wires under the bonnet. Connectors all well made and clean? Make 100% sure it's not an ignition fault. Could it be a problem with the crankshaft position sensor? My Montego had almost exactly the same fault and this was the culprit in the end.

 

The system for the 1.8 petrol is a Sagem S2000 system. Maybe this might help in Googling for problems with it starting.

 

Good luck.

Might be worth checking the ignition barrel while your at it

[Ronin]

Thanks for the feedback guys, Ronin checked all the connections and swapped/ tested the temperature senders in a friends Pug 406 1.8 16v , they are the same apparently. Still the same issue occured so that ruled out a cold start issue. The problem was starting to get worse it was starting to cut out at junctions and refusing to restart.

 

So next was the crankshaft position sensor as suggested by Randombloke. Guess what? RESULT

 

You were spot on mate, problem solved totally.

 

Ronin cleaned out the EGR valve while he was at it for good measure and went to see an old pug technician mate who had all the relevant ODB/BSI test equipment. He cleared all the faults and now the car feels totally different.

All in all a total cost of £30 to fix the problem once and for all.

 

More power and torque, smoother ride and much better economy.

 

So thanks once again lads and a big thankyou to Randombloke, all that from just one sensor

[Randombloke]

Thanks for letting us know how it got fixed. This sort of feedback improves the forum no end as we have proven answers.

 

Long shot from me but I'm happy to hear you are fixed!!! :o