Starting Problem - Help Please :)

[Hax]

Hi again folks

 

I have a 2003 Citroen C5 2.2HDi.

 

The last week, it's been having problems starting. The engine seems to turn over quite readily, but seems reluctant to fire.

 

If I keep the key turned, after a reasonably long period, the engine will try and start a couple of times before actually starting properly.

 

Once started, it runs fine and I can stop the engine and start it again without any problems.

 

Has anyone got any advice on what the problem could be? I was thinking that it's most likely a glow plug problem.

 

If it is, where are the glow plugs located? Are they accessible? What tools would I need to change them myself?

 

Sorry for all the questions - any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Adam

[Randombloke]

Has anyone got any advice on what the problem could be? I was thinking that it's most likely a glow plug problem.

 

 

HDi engines only use the glow plugs when it's very cold. (-5 degrees C, check other threads for this)

 

Does the light for them stay on when you turn the ignition key? It's unlikely that all 4 plugs have croaked. Look at pre heat relay or wires first.

 

Also, try giving it two or three turns of the key to preheat it more before engaging the starter motor. Then see if it starts more easily.

 

Could be low fuel pressure from the pump in the tank. Coastline, I think you've mentioned this fault before?

[Hax]

Hi RandomBloke, thanks for the speedy reply!

 

I tried searching the forums earlier but got no results back - search seems to be working fine now I'm home - odd...

 

So, with the search now working for me, I found this post on here which seems to pretty much match my problems albeit with reference to a 1.9TDi: http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro...mp;hl=glow+plug

 

 

Anyway, the preheat light on the dashboard does come on for a split second and then goes out when turning the key. I will try turning the ignition on and off a few times in the morning before I try cranking the engine.

 

Does the light for them stay on when you turn the ignition key? It's unlikely that all 4 plugs have -croaked. Look at pre heat relay or wires first.

 

Where do I find the pre heat relay and wires? Sorry, but I have little car maintenance experience and no manual!

 

Any help greatly appreciated, as always.

 

Adam

[iannez]

as randombloke said the glow plugs on a hdi dont come into play unless the outside temp is less than -5. 1.9td engines use glow plugs every time you turn the key so take no notice of that post. sounds to me like your fuel circuit is drawing air from somewhere and the fuel is running back to the tank. when you start the car from cold the engine is having to self bleed the air from the system before it will start. easy fix for this is to remove the spill off pipe from the injector nearest the cam pully (the one that returns the fuel to the tank) and fit a non return valve (a couple of quid from citroen) and the problem should be sorted.

[Hax]

as randombloke said the glow plugs on a hdi dont come into play unless the outside temp is less than -5. 1.9td engines use glow plugs every time you turn the key so take no notice of that post. sounds to me like your fuel circuit is drawing air from somewhere and the fuel is running back to the tank. when you start the car from cold the engine is having to self bleed the air from the system before it will start. easy fix for this is to remove the spill off pipe from the injector nearest the cam pully (the one that returns the fuel to the tank) and fit a non return valve (a couple of quid from citroen) and the problem should be sorted.

 

Hi iannez - thanks for the reply.

 

I've recently had the car serviced, including new fuel filter. Prior to this service, I'd not had any problems - they seem to have started since the service.

 

However, since picking the car up from the service, it had been sat dormant for a week and the really cold weather has descended so whilst I've had a niggling thought that it may be related to the service, I've also thought it could be related to the cold weather.

 

Is it possible the problem is related to this? If so, I'll give the garage who serviced it a call tomorrow and ask them to check it out for me.

 

Adam

[iannez]

yes mate. the quick clip pipe connectors or the rubber seal on the fuel filter cap is probably at fault. it has a screw on collar that pulls the seal down so it might be something simple like its not tight enough.

the fault could also be down to a lazy starter or the battery starting to fail but get the fuel side checked first.

[Hax]

Cheers again iannez.

 

I got the kind folk at Halfords to test the battery for me - as that was my first thought. They said it was OK, but that was, of course, after me driving to them and having charged it up a little first!

 

Will give the garage a call tomorrow and see if I can pop over for them to just give it a quick look over - will post to let you know if that fixes the problem or not! :(

 

Adam

[Johndouglas]

My C5 developed the same problem about a year ago. The first start of the day was difficult but was fine for the remainder. Eventually the starter motor was changed because it was turning over too slowly.

[Hax]

Located the problem - diesel is leaking out of one of the easily visible torx bolts on the fuel pump.

 

Now, just need to wait for the RAC to turn up so I ca get the car to the garage as it won't start at all now!

 

Cheers for all the help folks!

 

Adam

[Hax]

Just to close the story:

 

Citroen apparently claimed that you couldn't get the necessary seals and I would need to buy a new pump.

 

The garage I use managed to locate someone who would sell the set of seals for these pumps and pushed my car through despite being fully booked. Total cost was about £230 - which I thought was pretty good as they claimed it took them eight hours to remove the pump, strip it down and refit it - but they only charged me for six hours of labour.

 

Also cost me a tin of choccy biscuits which I gave to them as a "Happy Christmas" and "thank you" for pushing the car through when they were so busy and I was in such desperate need for it to go away for Christmas - a great bunch of guys! :)

 

All's wll that ends well!

 

Cheers all - have a good Christmas and New Year!

 

Adam

[coastline taxis]

Did that inlude a new timing belt and water pump in with the price as the beltl hast to come of to do the job if so then that is a cracking price. The torx bolts leaking from wouldnt hapen to be the two that hold the regulator onto the back of the pump

[Hax]

No, it didn't include the timing belt or water pump. I asked him about that but he said we wasn't anywhere near close to changing the timing and that would add a reasonable amount of extra work. Seeing as he was pushing this through as a bit of a favour as I wanted to get away for my Christmas break, I didn't push it with him.

 

He said he had to take the auxiliary belt off - but not the timing belt.

 

He also told me it took him eight hours to do the work but he only charged me for six hours. Six hours to remove the pump, dismantle it, source the part, reassemble it and refit the pump seems fairly reasonable to me - but then again, I don't know how long these things take to do - I think it was the first one he had to do as he said he's not seen one of these pumps fail before.

 

As for which bolts, all I can tell you is that there are two that are easily visible from the front of the car and it was one of those - I don't have much knowledge to say what's what under the bonnet - sadly!

 

End of the day, the total bill was £230 - which is a lot cheaper than if he'd just gone ahead and bought a new pump for me, in which case, the bill would have most likely ended up being closer to £600 to £700!

 

Cheers,

 

Adam

[iannez]

pump is run off the timing belt so if the pump was removed he would have had to remove the belt so fitting a new belt would have made no extra work but as long as the jobs done and your happy thats all that matters.

[coastline taxis]

Sounds like youve had the gasket replaced on the fuel pressure regulator on the back of the pump replaced 20 mins maximum plus the price of the gasket. But like iannez says at least the jobs done

[iannez]

exactly what i thought steve but didnt want to say.

[Hax]

Not sure what you call the front and the back, but the leak was coming from the front of the pump as I looked at it.

 

I've found this photo on the web that shows the view I had - and the diesel was leaking out of hte top right of the four bolts on the front.

 

http://www.bba-reman.com/images/commonrail1.jpg

 

**EDIT: Obvously, it wasn't leaking out of the bolt, but from the bolt's seal!

[Guest tbesze]

Hello!

 

2.0 16v in the car. 2002nd Cold weather is very difficult to start cold engines. Warm engine is good. Water temperature sensor, and spark plug replaced. Please help!

 

Thank you!

[Randombloke]

Hello!

 

2.0 16v in the car. 2002nd Cold weather is very difficult to start cold engines. Warm engine is good. Water temperature sensor, and spark plug replaced. Please help!

 

 

How fast does the engine turn over when cold?

 

Please measure battery voltage first thing in the morning before switch on, then after switch on but before turning the engine over, then after it starts, then when it's been running for 10 minutes or so.

 

Make sure earth strap and battery positive are securely on and clean.

[Guest tbesze]

How fast does the engine turn over when cold?

 

Please measure battery voltage first thing in the morning before switch on, then after switch on but before turning the engine over, then after it starts, then when it's been running for 10 minutes or so.

 

Make sure earth strap and battery positive are securely on and clean.

 

Dear Randombloke!

 

 

Thanks for the answer, but the battery is a new one

 

so the earth strap and the battery positive are

 

securely on and clean.

 

The negative connections to the body and the engine is cleaned.

 

The tension is ok.

 

Maybe, have you got an other idea for this trouble? :wacko:

 

 

 

Thanks in advance, :D

 

 

Tibor B."

[coastline taxis]

does the engine seem to turn over fast enough or is it sluggish. Also can you smell petrol when it turning over and not firing. once running is there any engine problems at all e.g misfire poor performance or excesive fuel consunption

[Guest tbesze]

does the engine seem to turn over fast enough or is it sluggish. Also can you smell petrol when it turning over and not firing. once running is there any engine problems at all e.g misfire poor performance or excesive fuel consunption

 

 

 

The engine ( starter ) turns over fast.

There is not petrol smell.

Everything which you wrote is ok.

 

Battey voltages:

( 1 year old one )

 

Basic: 12,44 Volt

At first starting: 10,70 Volt / is it enough? /

Running engine: 14,40 Volt

 

When the battery was new then also was this problem.

 

Thanks for the helping!

[coastline taxis]

Can you get it plugged in and check the fuel pressure

[Guest tbesze]

Can you get it plugged in and check the fuel pressure

 

Fuel pressure is good. 3.5 bar.

Now we have been advised that the car's software to be updated.

Thank you for your help !!!!

[Guest tbesze]

Fuel pressure is good. 3.5 bar.

Now we have been advised that the car's software to be updated.

Thank you for your help !!!!

 

The software update after the car was good.

Now starts normally.

Thank you to facilitate help!