Auto Problems

[Guest cfryve]

Any advice on my latest problem on my 2003 hdi would be appreciated.

 

My gearbox is the AL4 that was allegedly replaced before I bought the car, certainly it had been out as some of the bolts were loose.

 

The symptoms are that after a cold start it changes up the box until it gets to changing into top gear then the fault light comes on and it goes in to emergency mode with service light. It happens at exactly the same place every day, doesn't matter whether I use it in manual mode. The drill is that I then stop, switch ignition off and start again (why does the b........... traffic master pipe up at this stage).

 

The gearbox then works fine for the rest of the day while the car/oil is warm.

 

The only other time it happens is if I'm in top gear and go for a kick down, fault light, same drill.

 

After coastline's advice I have changed the oil using the proper Citroen stuff and I'm experimenting with the levels, the old fluid looked dire.

 

I saw a post on this site that talked about the control valve being replaced and curing this problem but can't find it again. Anyone, Steve?, any idea where this valve is on the box, what it actually does and whether it's worth doing?

 

Happy New Year

[Randombloke]

The symptoms are that after a cold start it changes up the box until it gets to changing into top gear then the fault light comes on and it goes in to emergency mode with service light. It happens at exactly the same place every day, doesn't matter whether I use it in manual mode. The drill is that I then stop, switch ignition off and start again (why does the b........... traffic master pipe up at this stage).

 

Trafficmaster might be a clue there.

 

It only pipes up on switch on/start up if the battery voltage drops below a certain level, so if you are having bizarre faults on a C5, make sure the battery is 100%. The level for Traffic master to rabbit for no reason is quite low, IIRC under 10V.

 

Some of the sensors won't give correct readings with a low battery. If you can get a the battery load tested, I would.

 

Either that or try and borrow a brand new, fully charged battery and see if the same fault exists.

[coastline taxis]

Hello again just a couple of questions i forgot to ask you on the phone

when the oil came out was it black and smelling

also has the box been taken out at all or had a replacement

if so was it fitted by a dealer or not

and finally is there any judder on the drive

 

All the best to All

[Guest cfryve]

I keep wondering about the battery but it never fails to start the car even in these artic temperatures. I never get traffic master on cold start up only when I switch off and start up after service warning. I was wondering whether it pipes up because it's registered a fault. Never the less I'll find another battery and give it a go.

 

In relation to the oil I drained out it was black however didn't particularly smell burnt. The bloke I got the car off said the box had been replaced/repaired and that it was due an oil change. It certainly looks like it's been out as half the wheel arch clips were missing and bolts loose. I doubt that it was done by a main dealer and of course no proof/receipts.

 

Once I've cleared the fault on re start it changes very smoothly, no judder and only goes back into auto fault if I try to go for a hard kick down change which makes me wonder about the control valve (is that the unit bolted to the bottom of the box with an electrical connection?)

 

When I was underneath I also found some magnets stuck to the subframe I wonder whether they should be on the box to attract filings.

[coastline taxis]

When you change the oil its not a full oil change it gets as the oil in the torque converter dosnt drain out. So in a ideal world you need to drain the oil again. If there was improvement after the first oil change then i would change it again. to check for the correct level the oil needs to be at a certain temperature.

 

If the box has been changed then im fairly certain the the pedal need to be timed up with the box (theres a proper term for it but i cant remember what its called pedal instalation or something like that) Anyway without it youl get faults with the box changing gear.If it was done by the dealer then they will have done this if not fitted by the dealer then i douubt it would of been done.

 

Hydraulic locks i think there about 10 of them on the box so youl need a specalist to sort out which one it is.

 

The next bit is just whats going through me head and im not saying its the answer to your problem.

when you first start car up the oil in the box is cold and thick then you drive the car and the fault comes on then you clear the fault and the car runs fine (now the oil has warmed up a bit and thinned out. When you use the kickdown your relying on the oil again to change the gears for you. So if the correct level isnt acheived then the box wont work properly either

 

Do you know why the original box was replaced. Also pretty sure theres a filter that needs cleaning on the box. Im back to work on tuesday so il dig out what weve got on auto boxes and let you know but mind it will be very limited as auto boxes is something we avoid like the plague as there just to much of a specilist job

[GreenBlood]

After coastline's advice I have changed the oil using the proper Citroen stuff and I'm experimenting with the levels, the old fluid looked dire.

 

This is a good reference when changing oil on the AL4

 

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62725

 

Cheers

Chris

[Guest cfryve]

Steve/Chris

 

Thanks for the latest advice, nice links to the Aussie site, canny funnel he's got there!

 

The bloke I bought the car off said that the box had packed up on him and that's why he had it changed but he struggled enough to speak english so wasn't too good on techno speak

 

Ran the car today in snow mode due to sheet ice in the North East and guess what, no faults appeared. I suppose that could be that it's putting less strain on the oil by keeping the revs down or maybe me driving more carefully.

 

Oddly enough enough when I changed the oil I only managed to get about 3litres in to it despite doing the warm up procedure, the Haynes manual says it takes 4.5litres?

 

Anyway I think I'll change a bit more of the oil as suggested and go through the level checking again, I've still got some spare from getting 6 litres originally

 

Thanks

 

Al

[Guest cfryve]

Steve,

 

just found the "accelerator pedal learning" on a link from the Aussiefrogs site, I think I'll stick to changing the oil again.

[coastline taxis]

Hello

Trying to reply but messages wont go through. Anyway your more than welcome to the box and dont want owt for it as the clutches have gone in it. give is a ring before your coming and well try and get it out for you if not youl have to get your hands dirty

[Guest cfryve]

Hello

Trying to reply but messages wont go through. Anyway your more than welcome to the box and dont want owt for it as the clutches have gone in it. give is a ring before your coming and well try and get it out for you if not youl have to get your hands dirty

[Guest cfryve]

Both messages came through, that's great I'll give you a ring thanks

[Guest cfryve]

Oh I'm so happy that the site's back up and running, here's the latest update on my auto gearbox.

 

Like so many of the sites say the problems seems to come from the valve block with all the solenoids in. I don't think the answer is to just replace the two main solenoids because the spools they control get worn and leak oil.

Through the wonders of ebay I found someone selling a brand new assembly for £50, list price ????

It was listed as for a xantia, c4 and c8 but for the good old al4 box. Took the gamble and it turned out exactly the same as my c5 one, it even had the upgraded black solenoids.

Once fitted it worked fine so got the software checked out by a citroen indie.

So far so good with only one auto gearbox fault warning but that was when I was towing a bmw 5 series up a steep hill!, think the oil was getting a bit hot, maybe I can find a cheap oil cooler to pipe in.

Thanks for all the help

[DaveHerns]

Oh I'm so happy that the site's back up and running, here's the latest update on my auto gearbox.

 

Like so many of the sites say the problems seems to come from the valve block with all the solenoids in. I don't think the answer is to just replace the two main solenoids because the spools they control get worn and leak oil.

Through the wonders of ebay I found someone selling a brand new assembly for £50, list price ????

It was listed as for a xantia, c4 and c8 but for the good old al4 box. Took the gamble and it turned out exactly the same as my c5 one, it even had the upgraded black solenoids.

Once fitted it worked fine so got the software checked out by a citroen indie.

So far so good with only one auto gearbox fault warning but that was when I was towing a bmw 5 series up a steep hill!, think the oil was getting a bit hot, maybe I can find a cheap oil cooler to pipe in.

Thanks for all the help

Might be best to avoid towing BMW's !!

[coastline taxis]

Where they easy to change Anychance you could give a right up on hear sthat we could print it off and keep for future reference. Also well done

 

Steve

[Guest cfryve]

Will do steve, I'll take some photos and post a write up.

Al

[Smarty]

<!--quoteo(post=40143:date=Apr 29 2010, 08:12 PM:name=cfryve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cfryve @ Apr 29 2010, 08:12 PM) 40143[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh I'm so happy that the site's back up and running, here's the latest update on my auto gearbox.

 

Like so many of the sites say the problems seems to come from the valve block with all the solenoids in. I don't think the answer is to just replace the two main solenoids because the spools they control get worn and leak oil.

Through the wonders of ebay I found someone selling a brand new assembly for £50, list price ????

It was listed as for a xantia, c4 and c8 but for the good old al4 box. Took the gamble and it turned out exactly the same as my c5 one, it even had the upgraded black solenoids.

Once fitted it worked fine so got the software checked out by a citroen indie.

So far so good with only one auto gearbox fault warning but that was when I was towing a bmw 5 series up a steep hill!, think the oil was getting a bit hot, maybe I can find a cheap oil cooler to pipe in.

Thanks for all the help<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Might be best to avoid towing BMW's !!

 

Hi, thanks for the helpful dialogue, I have been experiencing this fault when the box is cold, the tech reckoned the oil was the original by the state of it, but that could also indicate knackered clutches too? Box has only done 70k! But like you the fault clears right up after restarting, also one other piece of info which seems strange the garage that is diagnosing these problems fixed my antipolution light problem however the little blighter showed up again last week but whilst the light was on the gearbox didn't play up? When the light cleared itself which it does the gearbox fault returned? The ecu's for both engine and box do not work independently of each other do they, they work with one another is that correct? If so there may be a clue there too.

 

Cheers

 

Mart

[Guest cfryve]

Hi, thanks for the helpful dialogue, I have been experiencing this fault when the box is cold, the tech reckoned the oil was the original by the state of it, but that could also indicate knackered clutches too? Box has only done 70k! But like you the fault clears right up after restarting, also one other piece of info which seems strange the garage that is diagnosing these problems fixed my antipolution light problem however the little blighter showed up again last week but whilst the light was on the gearbox didn't play up? When the light cleared itself which it does the gearbox fault returned? The ecu's for both engine and box do not work independently of each other do they, they work with one another is that correct? If so there may be a clue there too.

 

Cheers

 

Mart

[Guest cfryve]

Hi Mart,

 

My opinion for what it's worth is that it won't be the clutches, but then I'm not a trained Citroen tech just someone that likes to spend hours tinkering with auto gearboxes. Here's somemore of my experiences that might help.

 

My first problem was the anti polution light, this was correctly diagnosed by coastline as the MAF sensor, I replaced it for about £40 from a local motorfactor, easy job, at the same time I cleaned out the intercooler hoses that were full a black oil. The light immediately went off and thankfully has never appeared again. I suppose a tech might clear the fault code but if you don't fix the problem it just comes back on.

 

I at first tried changing the transmission oil, incidentally the Haynes manual is wrong about the capacity, they say 4.5litres for a drain and refill, it's more like 2.5litres. Anyway I've become quite expert in the prodedure for topping it up, checking the level, warming up to temp then recheckingand topping up again. Despite doing this several times and using the correct oil this never fixed my problem you could try it as your box hasn't done that many miles.

 

I would say that the ecus aren't connected I think that you've unfortunately got two problems. Once again if you ignore the auto fault it'll just get worse. Mine was ok for a couple of months with a reset when cold but it gradually got worse to the point where I could hardly accelerate without the clutch seeming to slip and go into limp home mode. I'm guessing that yours goes into 3rd gear limp mode, this puts more strain on the clutch when pulling away so will wear them out quicker.

 

There's a few sensors on the gearbox to measure temp, speed and pressure which I trying swapping round with some spares but that failed to cure. As I've previously posted it sounds like the classic control valve problem, depending on the age of your car it might not have the upgraded solenoids, mines a 2003 and it didn't. Depending how brave you are you can take off the front sump and check them out, there's companies on the net that sell the upgraded ones. If you're not then it could be costly at a dealer, otherwise sell it on ebay. Let me know if you want some instructions on how to get into the box.

 

Al