Trailer Weights Being Towed

[paul.h]

What weights are people towing and any problems ?

 

We are going to replace our caravan (MIRO 1000kg, MTPLM 1300kg) with a heavier one (MIRO 1334kg, MTPLM 1499kg) but we do not tow the caravan at much above the MIRO. Our C5 is a 2.2 hdi VTR mark 1 hatchback, kerb weight 1485 kg, towing limit 1500kg. It tows our existing caravan with no problems but I am not sure about the new one and whilst legal at the MIRO weight, it is above the 85% ratio that is often quoted (90% using the kerb weight or 86% if 75kg is added for the driver as the Caravan Club do for their tests). I am a bit reluctant to replace the car with a heavier one but welcome opinions.

[paul.h]

I have looked at other web sites and forums (caravan talk is a good one) and other car options and concluded our existing car should be ok. There are different versions of kerb weights - earlier ones do not include 75kg for the driver (as in the unladen weight in the mark 1 C5 handbook and brochures) but this extra weight is now included which is confusing when comparing cars. The Ford website brochures note their weights include the 75kg but I have not seen this elsewhere. The best place to find your car kerb weight is the V5C registration document which gives mass in service which includes the 75kg - hence my car has a kerb weight of 1560kg (unladen 1485kg as in the handbook and brochures) which should be used for the towing ratio calcs.

 

I was thinking a mark 2 C5 would be a good option being heavier but realised the brochure weights (and those in on-line/caravan dealer calcs) now include the extra 75kg - perhaps somebody could confirm this by looking at their V5C. A 2007 brochure gives unladen weights as 2.0hdi hatchback 1498kg and estate 1532kg, 2.2 hdi 173hp hatchback 1576kg and estate 1610kg. Edited 9/6/2011 - these weights do not appear to include the 75 kg for the driver.

[paul.h]

'perhaps somebody could confirm this by looking at their V5C'

 

I have not had any response to this but the following on the new C5 may be of interest:

 

In the car handbooks for the new C5 from 1/11/2008 (which can be read and printed by anyone on the service.citroen website as well as other current models) they give the car unladen weight and also the kerb weight which includes the 75 kg for the driver. However, to totally confuse buyers, the sales brochures only give the unladen weight but have called it the kerb weight. Also the handbooks clarify the towing limits for the new C5 and to reach the values in the brochures you have to reduce the payload in the car. In the handbook the nose weight is now called a recommended nose weight yet in the brochure is called max tow hitch download, to add a bit more confusion.

 

e.g. from the handbook 1/11/2009 to 30/6/2010

2 litre 140hp HDI tourer manual

- unladen weight 1655 kg, kerb weight 1730 kg

- braked trailer 1500 kg

- braked trailer (with load transfer within gross train weight limit) 1800 kg - this is the value used in the brochure.

- recommended nose weight 72 kg

 

2 litre 163hp HDI tourer manual

- unladen weight 1595 kg, kerb weight 1670 kg

- braked trailer 1400 kg

- braked trailer (with load transfer within gross train weight limit) 1670 kg - brochure value used.

- recommended nose weight 67 kg.

 

This would indicate the 163hp engined car is not as suitable for towing as the 140hp one but also shows the importance of seeing the weights in the handbook before buying rather than just the sales brochure.

[paul.h]

An update.

We have the new caravan, have not had to replace our car and have towed a few trips, about 450 miles so far on motorways and A roads without any problems. The new caravan has a Winterhoff stabiliser and pitches a lot more than the old which gets boring after a while on uneven roads so I may try the old Bulldog blade stabiliser as well and also try reducing the caravan nose weight from the car max of 75 kg.

 

It turned out the caravan MIRO (1334 kg) is now calculated differently to comply with some EEC rules and includes 28 kg to cover 2 gas bottles in the front locker and water in the water heater (neither of which we carry in the caravan) but excludes a battery - hence actual unladen mass including 18 kg for the battery is about 1324 kg (if the weight provided in the caravan handbook is correct). The few bits we carry in the caravan weighed about 10 kg so total unladen weight about 1334 kg which is about 86% of the car kerb weight including the driver. To reduce this further in the car rear footwells are the wheel clamp (18 kg) and as a trial, steel weights (2x12 kg made from 2 bars 100x40x375 mm) so actual ratio is about 83% before loading up the car.

 

Using part of the load capacity to increase the car weight with the steel bar was to see how the existing car coped rather than getting a new heavier car - £120 for 16 bars 100x20x375 mm (from a standard 6m length) from a local steel holders. I welded these to give 8 bars of 12 kg 100x40x375 to allow various combinations in the car depending on how it towed.

[driverdave]

What weights are people towing and any problems ?

 

We are going to replace our caravan (MIRO 1000kg, MTPLM 1300kg) with a heavier one (MIRO 1334kg, MTPLM 1499kg) but we do not tow the caravan at much above the MIRO. Our C5 is a 2.2 hdi VTR mark 1 hatchback, kerb weight 1485 kg, towing limit 1500kg. It tows our existing caravan with no problems but I am not sure about the new one and whilst legal at the MIRO weight, it is above the 85% ratio that is often quoted (90% using the kerb weight or 86% if 75kg is added for the driver as the Caravan Club do for their tests). I am a bit reluctant to replace the car with a heavier one but welcome opinions.

 

 

Our 2.2hdi sx mark 1 hatch tows our van with absolutely no problems. MTPLM is very similar to yours at 1495kg, van fitted with an alko hitch stabiliser. 750 miles from here to cornwall with no swaying or pitching to speak of at all last year, steady 55 on motorway on the cruise, no probs. Never had a better tow car, ever!

[Johndouglas]

What weights are people towing?

 

I currently tow at 79% with my Avondale 480 and C5 Estate. Generally I maintain 6th gear for most of the time and average 30mpg. The van is fitted with a Winterhoff 3000 and is rock steady without any pitching. Over my 47 years of caravan ownership I've had five different vans towed with a variety of cars. "Weight ratio" is talked about much more now than it used to be. Twenty years ago my tow car was a Citroen BX TZDturbo and it towed an Avondale Quantock. Each year it did the 1300 mile journey to southern Spain and handled the hills brilliantly, although going down required care. Then the BX was the Caravan Club's Tow Car of the Year, but even with my modest Quantock it was towing at 94%.

Should you change cars? - I would wait and see how your present one behaves.

[paul.h]

Thankyou for the replies.

As suggested, I will do a few more trips before deciding on changing the car, it has only done 43k miles so far and is in good condition hence the reluctance to replace it plus it does everything I need from a car. I had been considering a mark 2 C5 estate and a mark 3 tourer but there are few estates of a lowish mileage for sale and the tourer is too expensive, very few have hydractive suspension and being wide, they do not fit through the garage door.

 

Does the estate have a firmer rear suspension than the hatchback ?