Steering Wheel Wobble Column Vibration

[mac.remitrom]

At speed of 60 - 70 mph, the steering wheel wobbles. When below 60 or above 70, the wobble dissappears. Wheel balance has been checked, as has steering column, but nothing found that could explain the cause. All but 3 tyres have pressure sensors fitted, 1 missing from the front. Could this be the cause? OtherwiseI dont have a clue as to the cause. Can anybody offer any explanation as to the cause?

Thanks

[Big Dog]

Hi mac.

 

I am having same problem. I have had whell alignment checked and pressure and brakes checked. Mine wobbles like a bitch at same speed as yours. Recently i have found out that there seems to be a common problem with C5 steering wheel, i.e comming off. I took mine to garage and said that if you grip steering wheel and push and pull it side to side top to bottom and if it has moves, then sterring wheel bolt needs changing or tightend. I believe it is a factory fault and it should fail MOT. I am taking mine into garage soon to get it rectified. Hope this helps

[72dudes]

Just a thought - do either of you have the alloy wheels with no centre hub, i.e. they are located onto the hub by 4 bolts???

 

Early C5's (and I think mainly the 2.2 SX/Exclusive) had these wheels and I had to go to 6 (repeat 6) tyre specialists before I finally got rid of steering wheel wobble (mine was 65 - 75 MPH btw)

 

Edit: And I stood over each tyre fitter when he was balancing the wheels to make sure the "0" came up on the machines - and the wheel still wobbled to varying degrees.

 

It sure sounds like a wheel balance problem to me. Also have rears balanced too, as out of balance rear wheels can cause a vibration which sets up a kind of resonance which translates into steering wheel shimmy, but yours sound like fronts to me.

 

I'm due two front tyres soon, and I'm dreading getting the bl**dy things balanced as the only place where they balanced them properly was the ....... Citroen dealer (£60 and he wasn't even wearing a mask, .. lol)

 

So if anyone has the ideal answer on how to balance these stupid hubless wheels I'd love to know.

[myglaren]

Got new front tyres on mine the day before yesterday. No hole in the hub so they aren't balanced and the guy had a hell of a time with them - first one at least, had to help him remove the old ones and fit the new ones.

 

Balance seems to be OK, no vibration up to 90mph, haven't been any faster than that on them, they did feel very different though. I put it down to the 25L of distilled water in the boot but removing that still left the steering feeling a bit 'edgy'.

[mac.remitrom]

Hi mac.

 

I am having same problem. I have had whell alignment checked and pressure and brakes checked. Mine wobbles like a bitch at same speed as yours. Recently i have found out that there seems to be a common problem with C5 steering wheel, i.e comming off. I took mine to garage and said that if you grip steering wheel and push and pull it side to side top to bottom and if it has moves, then sterring wheel bolt needs changing or tightend. I believe it is a factory fault and it should fail MOT. I am taking mine into garage soon to get it rectified. Hope this helps

 

 

Thanks 4 your reply, a great help. I will check the "play" in the steering wheel, and see what result I get. Thanks again.

 

Mac

[delapoer]

I have a problem which appears to be unbalanced wheels but I have had them balanced and it still occurs. At speeds between 65 - 75 mph I get a vibration occurring. I have tried swapping wheels but it makes no difference. These are the "holeless" alloys on a 2002 2.2 HDi SX. I have read that there was a wheel recall on C5s - is this connected? My dealer doesn't know the cure and the mechanic has the same problem. I have considered that the wheels are not being balanced properly, that the discs could be warped (but it doesn't get worse with braking) or that there is something wrong with the column (which was replaced about one year ago). The wheels are undamaged as are the tyres from what I can see. Any fixes or suggestions? It ruins an otherwise very smooth ride. Joe

[shallishanti?]

mine does the same, but not always. seems to be if I accelerate up to that speed and cruise, but if I drive at say 85 then slow down to 70 it doesn't happen.

[kfk]

Vibrations when driving between 110 and 130 kilometres/hour

 

DIAGNOSIS - Wheels poorly balanced.

 

Rebalance all the wheels.

Operating procedure:

1. Checking the condition of the wheel assemblies

Check that there are no signs of impact on the wheel rims or on the tyres.

Check that there are no flat spots on the tyres.

Check that there are no signs of premature wear on any of the tyres.

Check that there is no damage to any of the tyres, caused by a puncture.

Check the tyre pressures (cold) with reference to the specifications given on the front LH vehicle pillar.

Check that the wheels, rims and tyres are clean (free of grime, soil, chippings etc.).

2. Findings on the wheel assemblies available from a conventional balancer

Determine whether the vibrations are of the vertical or angular type, by looking at the movement of the steering wheel during a road test on a smooth road surface :

If the movement of the steering wheel is vertical (vibrations to the floor and seats), then the vibration is caused by the balancing of the rear wheels

If the movement of the steering wheel is vertical and angular, the vibration arises from the balancing and/or the uniformity of the front wheels as well as from the balancing the rear wheels

If the movement of the steering wheel is angular, the vibration arises from the balancing and/or the uniformity of the front wheels

1) note down the values of the weights as well as their positions on the rims ; before removing the wheels, note down their locations on the vehicle and their positioning relative to the hub.

2) remove the weights and carry out balancing of the wheel assemblies. During balancing, check that there is no "ovality" or "run-out" by the wheel.

3) admissible values for the weights if the weights and/or their positions are different from those on the original wheel assembly :

Wheel with steel rim : admissible weight value : 60 grammes maximum per side and a total de 115 grammes maximum

Wheel with aluminium rim : admissible weight value : 50 grammes maximum per side (if the weight is clipped on the exterior) and a total of 95 grammes or 50 grammes on the interior and 80 grammes on the exterior (weight bonded) and a total of 115 grammes maximum

4) if the values and the positions of the weights are identical to those on the original wheel assembly, go to paragraph 10.

5) refit the wheel assemblies on the vehicle to their original positions . position the tyre valve to "12 o´clock".

6) pre-tighten the wheel bolts.

7) position the tyre valve to "6 o´clock".

8) tighten the wheel bolts to 90 N.m.

9) road test the vehicle.

10) if the vehicle vibrations persist, rotate the tyre around the rim by a half-turn . rebalance all the wheels.

11) if the weights are less than their admissible values, refit the wheel assemblies on the vehicle to their original positions , see paragraph 2.3).

12) position the tyre valve to "12 o´clock".

13) pre-tighten the wheel bolts.

14) position the tyre valve to "6 o´clock".

15) tighten the wheel bolts to 90 N.m.

16) road test the vehicle.

17) if the vehicle vibrations persist, rotate the tyre around the rim by a quarter-turn . rebalance all the wheels.

18) if the weights are less than their admissible values, refit the wheel assemblies on the vehicle to their original positions , see paragraph 2.3).

19) road test the vehicle.

20) if the vehicle vibrations persist or if the weights are less than their admissible values, see paragraph 2.3).

21) remove the tyre from the rim. Measure the run-out and the out-of-balance :

If the rim run-out is less than or equal to 0.4 millimetre and the residual out-of-balance is less than 27 grammes , replace the tyre

If the rim run-out is less than or equal to 0.4 millimetre and the residual out-of-balance is greater than 27 grammes , replace the rim

If the rim run-out is more than or equal to 0.4 millimetre , replace the rim

If you have changed the tyre or the rim but the vibrations persist, place the wheel assemblies on a test bed for measuring uniformity and variations in radial force (VFR), type Hunter GSP 9700.

Apply the procedure for checking the uniformity and variations in radial force (VFR) as recommended by the manufacturer of the test equipment.

If the vibrations persist following these checks........you either havent done it properly or its nothing to do with wheel balance!

[72dudes]

Blimey kfk, good stuff!

 

I had the same problem as Delapoer and it took 5 visits to 5 different places to finally minimise the problem. It's these damned wheels with no centre hub. I say 'minimise' because I occasionally get a slight vibration which seems to depend on tyre and ambient temperature, very annoying. I'm due to replace the front tyres and am dreading the balancing fiasco afterwards.

 

I wish kfk could come and do mine as I suspect the average tyre fitter will scratch his head, mutter under his breath about zeros on his machine and blame the tyres.

[Guest Timcitroen]

Same problem with my 2.2 SX - Its usually worse at 65 to 70 and stops around 71 - The best thing is to set the cruise control to 71. Tyres and balance make no difference - Its the only car I have had that does this

[davidad]

I had the same with my 2.2HDI Estate. I've been using a local independent tyre fitter for years with no problems but they had several attempts to balance the wheels without success after fitting some new Conti Premium tyres for me. When the car went into the Citroen dealer for a service I asked them to look at the problem, they rebalanced the wheels and 5k miles later they are still fine.

[Guest Visa10E]

Exactly same problem with my 02 2.2 HDi exclusive, took it to Gordons tyres in Wakefield who assured me they had the kit to do the centreless wheels and hey presto they got it right first time and the car drives 100% again, they also fitted rear pads - total cost including balancing all 4 wheels - £74

[Randombloke]

Suffered this with the old unmatched tyres and with new Dunlop SP2000s.

 

On returning it to the repairer I bought the tyres from, they re-balanced the wheels and the problem was fixed.

 

They used the right adaptor the first time but it seems that the C5 is far more fussy than other cars about balance.

 

Very happy now.

[legin]

Mine's a 52 plate 2.2 SX estate and that wobbles at between 65 and 75.

[Guest Dan Slatford]

Exactly same problem with my 02 2.2 HDi exclusive, took it to Gordons tyres in Wakefield who assured me they had the kit to do the centreless wheels and hey presto they got it right first time and the car drives 100% again, they also fitted rear pads - total cost including balancing all 4 wheels - £74

 

Hello!

 

I'm in Wakefield too, and my new (2001) C5 has this problem.

 

Where are Gordons tyres? Haven't heard of them. Will pay a visit this weekend!

[Guest Visa10E]

Hello!

 

I'm in Wakefield too, and my new (2001) C5 has this problem.

 

Where are Gordons tyres? Haven't heard of them. Will pay a visit this weekend!

 

 

They are in the new Flanshaw Industrial Estate, next to Junction 40 of the M1 dead easy to find

[marc125030]

Feels like something is slightly worn in the front steering or suspension possibly ball joint as it feels metal to metal, any common faults on the c5?

[Ronin]

Simplest fix first...

Take your car down to a local tyre and exhaust specialist (not the big companies) and ask them to check the front wheel balance "often free to check" If its out, then it's usually between £4-£7 per wheel

 

The early C5's suffered from an occasional knocking sound on the steering rack that manifested itself in the impression that the steering column was loose. I

t was down to a certain metal U/J being used on a coupling between the rack and column. later C5's had the improved U/J . It can be annoying but not detrimental to the cars safety or performance. Some owners have found some home brew fixes "axle grease mixed with sawdust" being the wierdest one but I haven't tried any of them.

 

The front anti-roll bar drop links tend to wear and give the impression of the car shaking it's fillings out over pot holes etc. A car will pass its MOT even if these are faulty as it's not an essential requirement to the suspension /steering check

These drop links have always been a main issue since the early days of Xantia's. They aren't expensive at about £18 to £30 each. They arent that difficult to replace either but clamps, jacks and a little patience is required. Alternatively a good citroen specialist can have this done in an hour at a cost of between £40-£70 per side.

Judgeing by the noises you are hearing and the excessive body roll you have, I would suggest getting the drop links checked out and replaced if neccessary.

[paul.h]

If the wheels are the alloy solid centre type (no central hub hole), then others have reported that not all tyre fitters have the necessary adaptors to be able to balance them.

If the vibration occurs when applying the brakes then the front or rears may need checking for disc runout.

[Guest s.wright]

If the wheels are the alloy solid centre type (no central hub hole), then others have reported that not all tyre fitters have the necessary adaptors to be able to balance them.

If the vibration occurs when applying the brakes then the front or rears may need checking for disc runout.

could you explain what disc runout is please. is that the same as a warped disc?

[paul.h]

Disc runout and warped can be the same - it is where the disc outer edge moves sideways as it is rotated. If the movement is excessive, the moving in/out of the brake piston will be noticed when braking. When a new disc is fitted or an old one is being checked, a dial gauge should be rested against the flat face of the disc near to the outer edge. Turn the hub/disc and watch the change in the gauge reading - similar results can be found by holding something like a pencil point against the disc and the change in gap measured with feeler gauges. There will be a maximum allowed such as 0.05mm - actual values may be in the disc fitting instructions or Haynes type manual. If the disc is newly being fitted, cleaning the disc and hub contact faces so the disc is fitted flat against the hub should be enough to keep the runout within tolerance. If the disc is warped due to overheating/wear, then it will probably need replacing.

[oxtobyd]

Hi, just picked up a 2002 C5 2.0 HDi and took it for a run on the A1 today and noticed at between 65-75 (ish) there's a sort of judder feel from under the drivers seat (so i'm guessing the front end) but below that speed nothing, and above 75 also seemed ok (but hard to tell, as not wanting to break the speed limit for to long)

 

there's no judder under breaking, so i'm guessing balancing maybe off, whats your thoughts??

 

thanks, and btw loving the car so far, only a few minor niggles to sort out.

 

cheers

[Randombloke]

there's no judder under breaking, so i'm guessing balancing maybe off, whats your thoughts??

 

Hello mate.

 

 

FWIW I have had this problem with both Dunlop SP2000s, took a return trip to get the problem sorted and more recently having to return twice to get Matrak XMs sorted.

 

All done now and the XMs are better than the Dunlops, especially in the wet.

[oxtobyd]

Ooops, so sorry should have done a simple search, never even gave it a thought. did look at the links you kindly provided, and i reckon the first thing to look at is the balance, since this seems to be a common problem.

 

many thanks

 

David

[72dudes]

A judder through the seats can often indicate that the rear wheels are out of balance, so worth getting all four done at the same time.