Here I Go Again !

[Michelotti]

So ten years after binning the BX meteor which I had love hate relationship with, mainly thanks to an idiot back street (so called) independent Citroen Specialist, and the damned thing falling to bits due to a severe case of bodyrot.......obviously not including the bonnet and tailgate! .............. I'm now the proud owner of a 56 plate C5 1.6 HDI LX .......full service history, 75k on the clock .verified by VOSA ................ Big car , small engine but pulls surprisingly well once it get's going .....I'm used to more agile more powerful stuff so it's a bit of a shock to the system .............having said that, I totally get it !................ Ride is sublime, and it cruises on the Motorway perfectly, add to that 52mpg and I'm more than happy .........however, question if you please ............. I notice there are a couple of companies out there offering a re-mapping service for this engine .......... they are claiming an extra 30 BHP and increased fuel consumption as well ! so, what's the downside? will it reduce life of key components such as Turbo, Timing Belt etc............ they claim cars are shipped from the factory in a "generic state of tune" to accommodate worldwide conditions ....heat, cold, dust, poor fuel, lax servicing etc ......... but surely, if all it takes is a software update, UK dealerships would be prepping vehicles for UK conditions prior to delivery ....rather than supplying them in their "generic state" or am I missing something ?

Edited August 20, 2013 by Michelotti

[coastline taxis]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Unfortunatly your second time around affair with a citroen is doomed from the start.  why  because youve getting a 1.6 which  eats turbos faster than a drunk.eats a curry Thats why there going so cheap.

 

Remapping

  Well its a funny thing at the moment because one of the questions on your insurance is " have you altered the vehicle fron the manufactures specifications" Emm yes i have.    A 1.6 relies heavily on the turbo so remaping it to give out even more isnt a good idea. Also stick rigidly to the service schedule and flush the engine at every oil change and use the correct oil.

 

But at least youve joined the forum so welcome and hello

[Michelotti]

doomed from the start eh ? thanks for that.

 

as is my membership on here after such a rude and flippant reply from a mod !!!!!!!!

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

Please do not take it personally, but you will find coastline taxis is a leading expert on C5 cars, has repaired many 1.6 hdi engines and provides good advice to protect your car - lots of oil/filter changes, good quality oil, help when needed from the forum which members are more than happy to provide and with luck you will not suffer turbo problems.

 

Some time ago I read an article on why manufacturers were installing smaller engines and from what I can remember, it was to meet EU directives on emissions from their range of cars. If the manufacturers exceeded their limits they would be fined. The smaller engines would run at a more efficient point but at higher revs to get the power but use less fuel - however, this could be at the expense of higher maintenance/repair costs so the car buyer would not necessarily save any money, particularly as the car got older.

[Michelotti]

Thanks for the reply Paul ..........was chuffed with the car, only  to have my bubble burst in first week of ownership :mellow:  ..... I do look after my cars .......don't do much mechanics myself, but am a firm believer in spending money with the right people to keep my cars well serviced, so am fully prepared to keep up with service schedule with this one ...........So, I bought it from a Citroen main dealer who say they have serviced it pre - delivery, I've just checked the oil and it's BLACK, THIN, and looks as though it's very high as well ........ well over the bulb on the dipstick .......... I don't have much experience with hi-tech modern diesels ....... is this how the oil should be ? I'm  used to new oil being greeny brown and thick and gloopy ......... I fully appreciate the need to keep up with oil and service schedules in order to prolong the life of key components such as Turbo's .......... can you or anybody else tell me if this is old oil or not ?????  

 

Thanks in advance

[paul.h]

Oil in a diesel always seems to be black soon after it is changed. New oils tend to be thinner for fuel economy. I changed the oil on our C3 after 16k miles (petrol engine on 2 year or 20k mile interval) and the old and new are runny, 5w30 full synthetic.

 

I was at our local Citroen dealer today and asked in the service department about reliability of the diesels in C3 engines 1.4 and 1.6 and turbo failures (thinking about getting one). On the 1.6 on all cars, he said they had only changed maybe 12 turbos out of thousands of cars, but his car was one of them, a 1.6 hdi C5 saloon which from memory he bought new a couple of years ago and would have been serviced there. On some the impellor nut had come loose but others down to maintenance.

 

If the oil level is too high it ought to be lowered to avoid the risk of it being sucked into the engine and used as fuel, which could be a cause of being unable to stop the engine (diesel runaway). It has been mentioned on here in the last few months.

 

Something else to prolong turbos is to not switch off the engine just after stopping the car, but to let it idle for a while whilst it cools - this will be in the handbook of most cars but may not be practised by many.

[Michelotti]

Thanks for the reply Paul. I'm a bit of a cynic, so I'm pretty wary of anything technical I don't know much about. Like I said. I got it from a Citroen dealer. They advertised it on Autotrader as a Citroen Approved when in fact it wasn't (got a 6 month RAC warranty with it instead) They've stamped the service book but somebody has written " prep" in the comments.....no mention of oil change.....but surely they would wouldn't they?  after all, they're a mainline Citroen dealership. They've also reset the service indicator on the dashboard ...........How can I tell it's had an oil change? ....like I said, after less than 300 miles, the oil is jet black and pretty thin................Maybe I should bite the bullet and get an oil change for my own peace of mind.    

[Johndouglas]

........Maybe I should bite the bullet and get an oil change for my own peace of mind.    

 

That's a good idea.   Filter as well.   At least you'll have a reckoning point from which to calculate your future maintenance.   If you have just a slight DIY ability and a few tools, it's an easy job to do yourself.

[paul.h]

Service book stamps do not really mean anything and can be done anytime and our service books do not have the various items ticked but only a stamp and date, job number and mileage. You really need the service receipts to see what was paid for and I always keep these, as well as for bits I fit myself to confirm my own service records. If serviced at a Citroen dealer, they keep computer records of what has been done so you should be able to check at the dealer. When buying a car, I suspect that garages would not do a full service if it is not due since this reduces the profit of the sales department who would have to pay the service department.

 

If you do not want to do the oil change yourself, dealers do an express service which includes this and other checks. The proper grade of oil can be expensive if you need a couple of packs, so sometimes this service is not too bad cost wise. You may also find your warranty requires records of servicing at a VAT registered garage.

[coastline taxis]

im sorry if my reply upset you but the 1.6 engine in a nice car like a c5 is wrong in my opinion only and not this sites. Anyway down to buisness what you must watch out for on the oil side of a 1.6 is the risk of oil contamination and that is why you MUST put a oil flush in before you change the oil and you Must use a low ash oil. A good sign that a flush hasnt been used is the oil going black very quick.

Lets say the oil already in the engine is coming to the end of its life and it gets drained and refilled without a flush then the new oil is contaminated straight away due to old oil in the turbo and vacum pump on the 2 and 2.2 engines its not that big of a problem but on the 1.6 its a major issue as it has to work a lot harder.

So use a flush everytime and also low ash oil. Discount stores will tell you that ordinary5w30 will do  well it wont but most people ignore  this as the 5w30 is a lot cheaper to buy.

 

Next whoever you use for your repairs get them to remove the oil feed pipe to the turbo at the engine block and remove the filter that is in the pipe as this filter clogs and cuts the oil of to your turbo and kills it. Other preventive measure weve taking on 1.6 engines is to remove the sump and give it a good clean out ( its a lot easier than it sounds)as the oil starts to turn like jelly even on cars that are serviced regular.

And dont be surprised when the new oil you put in has consistancy as a can of coke

[Michelotti]

Appreciate what you say Coastline ......Having been a Rep for a number of years doing 30k+ a year on A roads and Motorways throughout Northern England and Scotland, driving Mondeo's, Audi A4's & Saab 93's, I Know exactly why you would need 130+ BHP on a big car, however, I'm off the road now, My daily commute consists of 4 miles nose to tail rush hour traffic, and then on to 20 miles busy managed motorway....weekends it sits in the drive apart from an odd jaunt to to the supermarket. Priority is 1/ economy, 2/ comfort, 3/ performance .......I get 53.2mpg, It's quiet and luxurious and rides beautifully smooth........although it's not exactly quick off the mark, it will quite happily sit all day on the motorway at 80-90mph if I want....add to that the price I paid for it, and the condition it's in..... it ticked all the boxes. I've run it for the last 3 weeks and to be quite honest with you, it's never been found wanting....to the point where I've actually thought to myself, If i had a more powerful engine I wouldn't have been able to use it"......I can only go as quick as the guy in front, and i can only go as quick as the speed cameras allow........If I was back on the road repping, it definately would not be suitable, but for what I need it for, It's just the job! <_<