Spheres Or Springs?

[Philip0603]

Hi to all.  Am seriously considering a C5 estate.  Probably the 2.0 litre Diesel in Exclusive trim.  I seem to remember that PSA used a mixture of springs and spheres according to the trim level on the cars.  Does this follow with the estates?  I would have expected the estates to all be hydro-pneumatic.  I Currently have a Mercedes 124 Estate that has the Citroen system on the rear (all MB estates have the self levelling, it was an option on the saloons).

 

Supplementary questions, do these cars have the dreadful Dual Mass flywheel that seems to be so popular in the VAG group?  Is the Auto a reasonable option? My motoring is mostly local running around with a once a month or so, 100 mile round trip, so not too worried about the DPF issues as the car would have time to clean itself out or I could just remove the filter.  Is the oily stuff used to burn the DPF that expensive?

 

Any advice from estate owners gratefully received.  I am really loving 'Coastlines' posts,  so informative and knowledgeable.  Shame Cornwall is such a long way away from the NE.

 

Thanks in advance. Philip.

[Parkesie]

New shape c5s are springs or spheres. Spheres are fitted to all exclusive's estate or saloon and 2ltr 2.2ltr autos in vtr spec if i remember rightly from when i was shopping for mine.

Not sure about the flywheel mines on 90k and no sign of any problems.

Id like an auto v6 but the 2.0 6speed manual ive got is still a quiet relaxed drive.

[Johndouglas]

What year of Estate are you considering?   Early C5 estates are all on hydro pneumatic suspension.   After (I think) 2008/9 only the Exclusives have it.   All the others have steel suspension.   C5s after 2004/5 came with dual mass flywheels and particle filters and both these items can be got rid of.   There's a three part clutch kit available which dispenses with the DMF and also the particle filter can be stripped out.   2.2 C5s have always had particle filters.   Yes - Eolys fluid (that's your oily stuff :lol:) is expensive - around 35-40 quid a litre, and a full refill takes 5ltrs.

 

If you're considering a Mk1, a Mk2 or a Mk3 estate C5, you've got a choice of 1.6ltr, 2ltr and 2.2ltr diesels.   The 1.6s are best avoided.   Many consider they are under-powered in a C5, they also develop turbo faults and finally, Coastline will never forgive you if you turn up here with one :D.   The pick of the bunch is the 2ltr.   If you opt for the Mk2  2ltr, it will be the 16valve version.   Most of those in the Mk1s are the 8valve 110hp engines - although some have a 90hp version.  

 

[Philip0603]

Sorry, should have been more specific.  Am looking at either a late Mk1 or early Mk2 2.0 litre.  The main thing is it must be diesel, must have  pneumatics.  Not too bothered about either auto or manual.  Anyone know who makes the auto box?.  My reason for going for the 2.0 litre is a friend has the 90 Bhp engine in her Berlingo, and is is totally reliable, and very cheap to run.  I require the estate to cart round two black Labs.  Anyone know how big a caravan you could put on the back?  I doubt it would tug mine, so will keep the Land Rover for that job.  Thanks again, Philip.

[Johndouglas]

 a friend has the 90 Bhp engine in her Berlingo,

If that 90bhp engine is a 2ltr one then it must be an 8-valve.   To get an 8--valve engine in a C5 you'd need to be looking at Mk1s.   After the facelift in late 2004 they fitted the 16-valve engines.   If you decide to start looking at Mk1s then go for the 110bhp engines.   The 90 will feel a bit gutless in a car as heavy as the C5.   Both have turbos but the 90 is without an intercooler.

 

C5s are popular towcars.   One or two forum members tow with them - myself included.   The hydraulic suspension makes for easy hitching up and towing.   Mine does most of its motorway towing in 6th gear, although it's only pulling 1200Kgs.

 

I believe some of the automatic C5s are fitted with ZF 4HP20 boxes.

[paul.h]

What is the weight of your caravan, MIRO and MTPLM and the weight you actually tow at ? The mark 1 and 2 and the different engines and manual/auto gearboxes can pull different weights. If you can avoid the auto it may be best since a few on here have reported problems with their cars.

[Philip0603]

Interesting, if JohnDouglas is correct then the box is the same as used by Land Rover for the P38 Rangie and Discovery.  It is considered in those applications to be fairly robust.  I wonder if the switch to FWD makes a massive difference.  

 

My Caravan (Bessacarr 550 GL twin axle) tops out at 1850KG, I am too sacred to put it on a weigh bridge as I would probably frighten myself, though I suspect I stay inside the limits as I put some heavy things like awnings in the Land Rover.  Mind you, when you take into account the mover and air con unit I am probably pushing the envelope.  It does sit well on the back of the Disco at a steady 55 or so.

 

Think that I will try and avoid the auto and go for a 5 speed Mk 2, not sure when the six speed gearbox came in, but I really don't need all those cogs.  What is wrong with the 2.2 Litre, other than it uses a tad more fuel and it has a DPF?  I think that that is the engine that was developed with Ford and is used in the current Land Rover Defender & Transit, amongst others.

 

Thanks P

[Johndouglas]

Mk2s have the six speed box.   I think they got the 6-speed at the same time as they got the 16-valves. Change over date late 2004.    Yes- the 2.2 engine had the particle filter from day one, whereas the 2 ltr didn't get it until the Mk2.   Both engines do well with the DPF removed.

 

Your caravan's weight is way too much for a C5.   My own car has a maximum towed weight of 1600Kgs and Citroen always downgrade the maximum towed weight for their auto cars.   A similar car to mine with an auto box has a maximum of 1300Kgs.

[paul.h]

Just to confirm John's post, the C5 is not heavy enough for your caravan.

 

This is from a 2007 sales brochure and car handbook:

Max tow weight of any of the mark 2 C5 estates is 1600 kg and the 2.0 hdi hatchback is 1700 kg but apart from the 2.2 hdi 173 hp engine these values reduce if the car is loaded to the max laden weight. The highest car kerb weight (not including 75 kg for the driver) is for the 2.2 hdi 173 hp estate auto at 1640 kg and it has a tow limit of 1600 kg, the 2.0 hdi auto is 1574 kg and tow limit 1300 kg.

 

The early mark 3 C5 tourer estates with the 2.0 hdi 138/140 hp have higher kerb weights and towing limits but from memory it is 1800 kg and they did a 2.2 hdi 173 hp for a while which has higher weights.

 

Our first C5 was a mark 1 2.2 hdi hatchback and we had no bother with it and it was replaced with a mark 2 2.2 hdi 173 hp estate since we had changed our caravan and needed a heavier car. The mark 1 gave better fuel economy but the mark 2 drives better and the built in sat nav is useful (VTX model). I do not do many miles in it and when buying it was more important to get a decent car than the difference in fuel economy of maybe an extra 5 mpg. We have a 1.6 hdi C4 for day to day and trips that do not require the estate, this gives over 60 mpg compared to 50+ mpg for the same driving style and motorway trips (Warrington to Hull/Lincoln which we do regularly). The 6th gear can not really be used much below 50 mph so unless on motorways it would not get used much.

[coastline taxis]

I think the original poster has impecable taste in people. ha ha ha