Dpf Heres The Start Of It

[coastline taxis]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

 

heres the start of the government screwing us even more. Its now illegal to remove the dpf filter. Soon they will measure the exhaust gas pressure to see if the insides have been removed

[paul.h]

This should be a good boost for petrol car sales if looking to buy a higher mileage car. Looks as though now any recommendations to remove the dpf can no longer be made. I will pin this topic so it is not lost.

[Johndouglas]

Unless the particle filter has been removed and replaced with a straight piece of pipe (as I believe some cars have) how is any MOT centre to know?   A visual inspection doesn't tell the tester anything and they can't dismantle to have a look.   OK - they may introduce in the future a meter to test exhaust pressure, but changes to garage equipment will take time and extra expense to install.   The MOT fee has recently been frozen till 2015, and at the same time several new test features have been introduced.   Garages will be reluctant to increase the amount of time taken for each test without an increase in fee.   So will we just be left with the smoke test for the foreseeable future?

 

Then there's this latest idea on the EU's wish list - that MOT inspections and garage repairs be divorced from each other.   It must be a worrying time for garages.

 

Having said all that, with the smoke measure reduced to 1.5 for turbo diesel vehicles registered after 2008, I don't know that I'd want to risk removing the dpf, because it does increase the smoke level a little bit.

[milpol1]

Sugar, had mine removed about 3 years ago, and had the pipe installed, o welnedded a new car I guess

[milpol1]

Mot not due till June mind, thinking aloud, should I ask to get the MOT done in January, that would give me a further 12 months??

[milpol1]

Other option can you successfully put a new dpf back on the motor.  Costs??

[paul.h]

Maybe ask your MOT garage about it first and see if it would pass - it may still only need to meet the standards in force when the car was made (in the guidance note). So if it had a dpf when it was not mandatory, then possibly it may not need one. If it does need one, then a scrap yard may be a low cost source - but if you fit a complete one (with the insides intact) the ecu software would need to be redone to get the eolys system working again.

[milpol1]

Thanks Paul.................Asthe notes quote though"The vehicle will automatically fail the MOT test if the filter had been fitted as standard but is found to be no longer present." which mine did ahve one, so I guess it will fail MOT.  They are saying that the DPF has been installed for 20 years??I dontunderstand your reasoning

[paul.h]

The guidance notes imply the car has to meet the emission standards in force when the car was made. A dpf is not necessary to meet the earlier standards (some cars had them as a nice to have/have not) and a dpf is not specified as the way to meet the standards. The standards have changed in recent years - 2008 and possibly 2010 may be the dates of changes and from the most recent changes a dpf (or other means) may be the only way to meet them - but there are C4 2008 and 2009 1.6 and 2.0 hdi cars that were not fitted with a dpf. For the government to say an earlier car needs a dpf, even though it meets the emission standards, might need a change in the law/rules - or to be tested in court ?

 

So it could be an older car may not need a dpf to be refitted. A search  on the MOT testers manual has a guidance note on the testing standards https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles

and a dpf is not yet mentioned, so it may still be in the planning stage on how/what is to be tested. The testers manual is still on the 2012 version and again dpfs are not mentioned.

[paul.h]

This is copied from wikipedia and shows the diesel emission standards for particulates. I looked at the V5C for our 2007 C5 2.2 hdi and it gives 0.001 g/km for the particulate matter and on our 2011 C4 1.6 hdi it gives 0.082 g/km - both have dpfs. How these relate to the MOT smoke test I do not know and neither seem to match the standards. The C5 value may be a token gesture and not tested and the C4 is way above the standards. Maybe other members could give the values from their V5C.

 

European emission standards for passenger cars (Category M*), g/km

 

Tier / Date / PM  

Diesel

Euro 1† / July 1992   0.14 (0.18)  

Euro 2 / January 1996   0.08 

Euro 3 / January 2000  0.05 

Euro 4 / January 2005  0.025 

Euro 5 / September 2009  0.005 

Euro 6 (future) / September 2014  0.005  

[milpol1]

Any body got a spare DPF lol

[milpol1]

Well I have looked everywhere on the net for a DPF, and had no luck whatsoever, eveb been down the scrap yard local to me, they havent got any C5 at all, next step is to go to the guy that did the work in the first place to see if he has any......Anybody any ideas if that fails, or just scrap the car  or pay some exhorbant Citreon Dealer price, thats if they will do it at all. Thanks

[Johndouglas]

Did you look on ebay?   I'm not saying they'll fit your particular car but there are several on there.    Here's one for starters.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-Particle-Filter-for-Citroen-C5-01-04-/370713776457?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3ACitroen%7CModel%3AC5&hash=item5650435149

 

Search for particle filters.

[milpol1]

Yes John, looked on e bay, theres only go up to 2004, mine is 2.2Hdi 173BHP 2007, well it was 173 now 213.

[coastline taxis]

theres a big can of worms looming over all this. when defaping, cat removal,egr blanking and increasing bhp. thousands of drivers are then telling insurance company that there vehicle has not be modified from the manufactures specifications  when in fact they have.   believe me its now only a matter of time before it all has to be put back to original condition or the will fail the mot.

[paul.h]

VOSA has recently issued a special MOT note saying the MOT test will include a check for the presence of the dpf and catalyst. If they were fitted as standard and are missing then the car will fail the MOT - no mention of emission standards when the car was built or the smoke test. The wording is as follows:

 

-----------------------------

 

 

Item 1: Presence of Catalysts and Particulate Filters on Diesel Powered Vehicles

On 16 February 2014 Section 7.1 of the inspection manual will be amended to include a check for the presence of catalysts and particulate filters on diesel powered vehicles. Any vehicle where a catalytic converter or particulate filter is missing where one was fitted as standard will fail the test.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

I have started a General note to try to get this info to all members of the forum, not just ones who read the C5 section. An important aspect will be a missing dpf means a car would not be up to MOT standard and this could mean the car insurance is not valid.

[C 5 Estate]

Please feel free to move this post if its in wrong place.

 

My 2006 2000cc C5 will achieve 120,000 miles later this year and the thought of DPF replacement caused me to look on ebay for DPF’s where I saw this one for less than a £100. Has any one had experience of these.

 

Tim

[paul.h]

The easiest way to add a link is to copy and paste the web address of the page in to your post.

[C 5 Estate]

Sorry Paul.h i have only just noticed your reply, i will have another look on ebay for the details.

[C 5 Estate]

Have not found the advert for my 2 litre but this is an ad by the same company for the 2.2 litre.

 

They are Pocketrocketparts

Unit 14 Loxdale Ind Est

Northcott Road

Bilston

WV 14 0TP

01902 219395

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-c5-hdi-2-2-4hx-2002-2004-TR-PSA-F002-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-138-/351076601150?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AC5&hash=item51bdcbcd3e

[morto]

As i read it you should be ok for know as long as they can see the DPF,,

[Johndouglas]

As i read it you should be ok for know as long as they can see the DPF,,

For now, providing the engine satisfies the smoke limit, it will pass. But for how long? And on 2008 engines and later, the smoke limit is reduced and there's a fair chance that a later engine might not pass with the filter removed. For anyone who hasn't had a filter removed, but is thinking about it. Maybe think again!

[paul.h]

A good indication if the dpf internals have been removed could be to check the end of the exhaust - on the 2 C5s I have had with a dpf, inside the end of the exhaust has been clean whereas other cars without a dpf, the exhaust has been covered in soot.

[Boonaldo08]

mental note to wipe the exhaust of all soot before mot time - thanks  !!

[paul.h]

This week, Morto's C5 2.2 hdi mark 1, originally with a dpf (but I am not sure if removed) has failed the MOT on emissions. He still has to report back on this so more info will follow.

 

I still need to point out though that removal of the dpf can not be recommended by this forum, it can be considered illegal, the car should fail the MOT and the insurance is unlikely to be valid. As with all modifications the insurer should be notified and the car should be kept up to MOT standards.