Winter Starting Problems

[richardx4]

Hi All,

I have 2003 C8 2.0 Litre  hdi 86,000 miles.

The particulate filter was removed and remapped 3 years ago ,no more diesel at minimum alarms. 

 

I have no problems starting this car in summer but when the temperature drops to Zero this car will not start without a squirt of easy start,

 

Fitted Volt meter ...I can see the volts dip and then return to 12.03 V When ignition key is first turned on.I am presuming that this is the glow plugs working. (we all know the issues with replacing the glow plugs and that they do not operate until minus 4 deg ...Citroen dealer told me this.

 

Possible solution tried

I have tried thinner oil in winter.

Keeping the fuel tank full.

Insulating the engine compartment.

Checked and replaced fuel lines,no air leaks.

 

Can anyone please give me some more possibilities to check before the cold weather really starts.

Regards

Richard

 

[Johndouglas]

I think that 12.3volts is a bit on the low side for a winter start.   It might be that it's not turning the engine fast enough to build up fuel pressure.   How old is your battery?   A fully charged battery should read 12.7  to 8.

[paul.h]

What power is the engine - the C5 had a 2.0 hdi 110 hp to mid 2004 which did not have a particulate filter, then mid 2004 it had a 2.0 hdi 138 hp engine with the filter. The C5 2.2 hdi always had a particulate filter.

 

The temperature sensors may also be at fault. If you have a code reader that does live data this will show what the coolant and inlet air temperatures are - before the first start of the day, they should be close to the outside air temp. Does the glow plug light appear at all before starting - it may pay to turn the ignition key to the dash lit up position and then wait a few seconds before then starting the engine, to give the glow plugs a chance to work if they are needed.

 

In your post you put the voltage as 12.03 volts, John thought you meant 12.3 volts but rightly pointed out it should be 12.7 volts for a charged battery. It may be better to measure the voltage across the battery terminals without the ignition on in case there are any losses/uses which may lead to a wrong value when considering if the battery needs replacing. Does the engine seem to turn over as fast as it does in summer ? If you can, give the battery a charge and then see if it makes a difference. However, do not just disconnect/reconnect the battery since this may lead to odd electrical problems. I have found the following has worked without problems -

 

If you need to disconnect the battery and not do a BSI reset procedure, I have found the following has not given me any problems on a 2004 and 2007 C5 and a 2003 C3:

- remove the ignition key from the car

- open the bonnet

- wait a few minutes for the BSI to shut down

- disconnect the battery negative terminal

 

When reconnecting

- ignition key out of the car

- reconnect the battery

- wait a few minutes

- insert the key in the ignition and wait a minute

- turn the key to the first position and wait a minute

- turn the key so the dash lights come on and wait a minute

- start the engine

- take the windows down and up to reset the anti pinch

- reset the clock (and radio on the C3).

 

 

 

(I have moved your post in to the technical section since ones outside of a subforum do not show after a few days and may be hard to find.)

[richardx4]

Hi

You are correct the voltmeter reading is 12.6 and not 12.03 and my multi meter gives me the same reading at 12.6 .This is a new battery fitted last January with a new alternator fitted in May.

I have just removed my battery leads to test for possible parasitic drain on the battery but nothing found.Guess I should just be happy that the weather is still mild.

[Johndouglas]

Three or 4 years ago I had this same trouble with starting when the temperature was low.   Eventually I took it to my local Citroen dealer to have it looked at.   At first they said the battery had been changed and the replacement did not have the correct capacity.    They wanted to fit another one but I declined and borrowed one.   Although it was fully charged, it was no better on the first start of the day.   Then they discovered the starter wasn't turning over fast enough to provide sufficient  fuel pressure.   A replacement starter solved the problem.

 

 

PS:   I'm surprised that a 2.0ltr engine of 2003 date had a particle filter.

[paul.h]

Did you have the same problem last winter ?

You could also check the earth connections to the body and engine to make sure they are clean and the starter motor connections (if you can get to them). If the wiring between the battery and starter is damaged it is likely to have hot spots when trying to start the car.

[Matt.flintham]

Hi I am new to the c8. I have got the 2l hdi engine. Only had the car a few days running perfect then on a 10 minute stop (engine off) the car wouldn't start for another hour. It would turnover and no other faults showing on dash. Car does struggle to start like the glow plugs are not working but was also told it could be a injector fault but car ticks over as normal and runs perfect. Any help plz. Thanks in advance

[Johndouglas]

The glowplugs don't come into action until the temperature is down below freezing. It could be thast you have a slight air leak in the fuel line. If you have a primer bulb on the fuel system you could try giving it a few squeezes prior to a start. The bulb should feel quite solid.

 

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i53/Johndug/Handprimer002marked.jpg[/url]

 

In case you don't know it, the hand primer is the bulb with the crimson spot. But not every car has one!

[Simple]

@richardx4, take out the starter motor, disassemble and clean it and change the brushes. it should do the trick.

 

By the way, my car is 2003 2.0 HDi 109hp, it has FAP and it does not have the hand primer shown in the photo.

[hugh3lf]

Bad starting fixed by changing the Starter Motor:  Hi, I have a 2003 2Ltr HDi with 105K on the clock.  Last winter it started to be difficult to start.  Things got better with the summer, but it still took longer than normal to start, especially when cold.  Finally the car refused to start when I was at a supermarket; a nearby Renault garage tested the battery and said it only had 50% capacity left, but that was unlikely to be the cause of the failure to start.  They also jumped the car, but without success.  However, when the Rescue guys turned up the next day, it started first turn of the key!  As I was abroad, I took it to a Citroen main dealer who ended up changing the fuel rail and fuel pump sensor.  That didnt fix the problem either, but they then said all the pressures were normal so  it must be the Starter Motor - which made no sense to me as the starter turned the engine over at about 300 rpm when hot.  In the end the car would only start with easy start.  A new battery fixed things for a few weeks, then back to easy start.  Most garages said it was probably an air leak or an injector problem.  However, the original garage was very insistant that it was the starter motor and that they had seen this problem before with the C8.  It made no sense, but I decided to investigate further:- The battery voltage was dropping to 9 - 10V when cranking, and the starter was getting very hot, so I changed the starter, and it now starts first turn of the key.  The new starter sounds very different from the old one, which used to crank the engine like an old bendix starter, so I guess there was something wrong internally; the bearings were also shot.  I can only guess that the internal problems in the Starter, put such a drain on the battery that the voltage dropped too low for the engine ECU to work and turn on the Injectors - certainly once the car started it always drove completely normally.

Edited December 1, 2015 by hugh3lf

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum and thankyou for your help on this topic.