C5 Tourer 2.7 2009. Clock Etc

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Hi Folks

 

First time on this forum today and think I posted in the wrong place. Think I have it this time.

 

Just had the C5 a week after years of various Citroens including 5 years with a C8 which I thought had got me up to speed living with French electrics?

 

Initialy had a few non working items on the C5. Interior lights except main center(door operated). Turned out to be just a fuse but not the fuse as listed in the handbook.But by the time I had removed every fuse in fusebox C  I found I had created new problems:- 

The clock : I can reset the clock,date etc. But when I next turn on the ignition I am back to a flashing screen and needs to be re set. Can enyone assist.

 

Also originaly I could use the key to lock the car without the alarm going off. (I think possibly inhibited by the previous owner) Now very soon after locking the care using the remote, the alarm starts after less than a minute "Usually just after I have got into the House". I can only stop The alarm by inserting key into ignition .   Locking the car with key in lock meathod does not activate the alarm.

 

Never been a fan of economy mode on the C8 but the C5 is pathetic. 3mins Radio is my alocation of power. Battery checked at Halfords ALL GOOD, plus my own meter which reads 12.65volts even after deliberately leaving the car unused for 2 days.

 

Last :- Still cannot find the fuse for the 2 accessary sockets. All help welcome.

 

Thanks in antisipation

 

Xpag

 

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

We've had clock resetting on a C3 and 2 C4s. The latest C4 (2011) at the last service had an update which fixed the resetting so it is a common problem that Citroen now have a fix for and maybe you need to go to a dealer.

 

Maybe the alarm thinks a door, tailgate or bonnet is open. A neighbour had this on a Landrover and the bonnet alarm switch had failed but the dash display showed the bonnet open. If you go to a dealer their diagnostic equipment (Lexia) will say what is wrong.

 

As a long shot, you could try removing the light new fuse and see if that resets everything.

 

The handbooks seem to list dash fusebox C, fuse F9 30amp for the 12 volt sockets.

 

I have deleted your similar post wrongly put in the Xsara forum.

[coastline taxis]

This sound like youve pulled/blown the fuse for the permenant 12v supply which keeps the power to the clock/stereo/alarm/12v sockets when the key is out and the ecu is asleep and once you put the key back in the ecu wakes up and sends power to everything and it all works fine. Unfortunatly to alter the economy mode youl need diagnostic equipment (lexia/Solus pro).  its a very common mistake youve done as theres actually 3 to 4 fuse boxes and it does get a bit confusing

 1st fusebox  inside glovebox

 2nd fusebox  engine bay right hand side. turn cover screws 1/4 turn and lift cover

 3rd fusebox under fusebox 2 (maxi fuses), lift up fusebox 2 very fiddly and awkward to lift up

 4th fusebox  remove battery cover.

 

If i remember correctly itl be the battery fusebox theres 4 fuses in there and youl want F6 25 amp. but still go round and check the lot.  Before you do start pulling any fuses always follow the bsi reset procedure and disconect the battery before you remove any fuse

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Thank you both for your assistance. All very welcome. From reading other sections I understand Paul and I are both caravaers. Good to know. Also thanks for deleting my entry in the Xsara forum.

 

Initially no power outlets worked:- cigy lighter and both 12 volt supply plugs, plus the 2 map lights, the vanity mirrors, glove box lights also dead.replacing the blown F9 30amp sorted all but the back seat and rear sockets. So not quite as per the handbook. F9 was almost the last fuse I checked "If you start from the right", so saw no reason not to check the last 2. This fuse removing obviously caused some other problems. If I understand you properly I need to put the eco to sleep again and wake it up with a full set of fuses??? Then the re setting of the clock should be more permenant. Just for referance I can re set, then turn off the ignition and provided the flipping economy mode does not kick in it retains the setting.Leave the car with the ignition off for 5 minutes and I am back to a flashing1st Jan again.

 

This is quite a voyage of discovery. I have had another rumage today. I say rumage because the fuse box which contains the fuse for the 2 power outlets is not shown for the V6 Battery in the back version.

Then back home to read your reply...Coastline you are almost spot on with the battery fuse box. In my case it is a small red box mounted on top of the battery. It would appear to be a 30A midi fuse 33mm between holes. I have taken a phot if you are interested? 2nd fuse in could not find a number. It's a bit like walking on eggs in case I stuff up something.

 

Before I do anything more I am going to wait for a reply (hopefully you will be so kind) re a controlled battery disconnect and wait for internal capacitence discharge on the "black boxes". I love my Citroens but sometimes now in my late 60s wonder if I should stick to my old Jag as motoring exercise.

 

From what you have said the Economy mode trip out voltage could be changed?  No doubt I will need to go to a main agent or invest in some diagnostic equipment. So I will leave that for later. Glad to know it is possible. Very annoying to have a battery full of volts and something pulled the switch.

 

The alarm:- I had exactly the same problem with my C8, and for almost a year just locked it using the key in the door. Then one day my wife borrowed it and just used the fob in the normal way. Never did a thing but it was perfect therafter. Thanks for your suggestion Paul re door sencors, does this mean more than one sencor per door? Because I get the usual door open warnings when I turn on the ignition. So assume it must be something else. Can the system be imobilised yet able to use the fob, or is this something else that may sort itself after I put the eco to sleep?

 

One other thing. Battery charging. All advise seems to suggest ALWAYS disconnect the battery. It was my habit to charge the C8 battery while still connected to the car. Admittedly this was restricted to a max of 2A and limited to 13.8 volts. Before charging, I found leaving the car for 2 weeks or more left the battery a bit low. It always started but on a cold day it was like me on a cold morning.. a bit reluctant. Is the C5 anymore of a risk?

 

Once again many thanks to both of you.

[paul.h]

In this Technical section there is a Common Problems pinned post with a procedure I use for disconnecting the battery. The aim is to let the bsi shut down before disconnecting it and then when connecting again to let it start up before starting the engine. There is also a pinned post with a bsi reset procedure but you may not need to do this much. Probably just need to disconnect the battery, do the fuse checks and then reconnect it following the procedure. Also look in the handbook to see what it says.

 

I have always disconnected the battery before connecting a charger, then no risk of any spikes or high voltage messing up the electrics. Every time a door or other thing is used on the car with the battery connected results in the bsi starting up so if the voltage is not right it might give a problem.

 

On the C5s I have found if the car is not used for 3 or more weeks the battery voltage may drop too low to start the engine and that the towbar relays have a small current draw which can reduce this to 3 weeks. So if the car is not going to be used for towing (or an MOT), I remove the towbar fuses. If you remove the towbar fuses this may have an impact on the eco mode time since if you have a voltage leak somewhere this will reduce the time.

[coastline taxis]

Follow pauls advice by looking up the bsi reset procedure pinned to the top of the page in the forum and after you diconect the battery terminal then check and replace the fuses. there is no time limit inbetween disconecting and reconecting the battery so take as long as you like to check the fuses. Also pinned to the top of the page is a diagnostic section where members with diagnostic tools are willing to help other members free of charge. there might be one near you that you can pm. if the the fuse blows again then check inside the 12v sockets for foreign objects. When charging always disconect the battery because when the ecu is trying to go to sleep it senses a power input and gets itself a bit confused.

[xpag]

True gents. Most greatful for your interest.

 

Todays efforts:

                            My car being a tourer with the battery set just behind the nearside rearweel arch. the proceedure has to happen with the tailgate open, but I dont think this affected the outcome. The handbook simply states turn everything off before disconnecting. However to be safe I used used a DC clamp meter to help monitor things. Initially after turning everything off  and timed interior lights shut off, I got a reading of. 660Ma . The 660Ma gradually fell to 6Ma after 3-4 minutes and remained at 6Ma for the next 30 mins so I disconnected. Over an hour later I reconnected. All seemed well the clock reset and the alarm did not go off when locking with the fob. 5 or so minutes later the alarm went off again and the clock was back to needing a re set.

 

So next a bsi reset. followed the proceedure but no improvement. Note, the hold lock button on key for 10 seconds  failed to get the expected 2 pleeps, turning on the side lights failed to get the lights on until after the ignition was turned on.

 

I have noted elsewhere the bsi reset may take several attempts so will try again this weekend, unless you have other ideas.

 

Paul your comments re towing electrics is noted, however the towbar was only fitted Monday of this week and the supply is connected direct the the battery via a 30a fuse. I could not measure any current draw when I checked the circuit today.

 

Will keep you both posted as I want to bottom these problems and feel others following this topic may be interested in the conclusion.

 

Once again thank you both very much.

[paul.h]

On your towbar, do you not have 2 supplies - 1 for the lights and one for the fridge/battery/etc. Possibly the lights are taken from the Citroen trailer supply already in the back of the car and a fuse probably in the dash fuse box. The fridge will be the one direct from the battery and using a smart relay so it is powered when the engine is running, detected by a rise in battery voltage - the actual voltage could be adjustable.

 

In my case I have a 12 volt 15 amp fuse supply for the lights and a 20 amp fuse supply for the fridge. Both effectively direct from the battery with smart relays. A 30 amp fuse is only needed for higher powered fridges.

[coastline taxis]

Did you check/replace the fuses when you had the battery off . The holding of the lock button is for resync the key

[xpag]

Back again, sorry for delay.

 

Just to recap. Initially suffering with several interior lights and all 3 12 volt power outlets not working I removed each fuse in fusebox C.

After replacing fuse F9 in F/B 6 ..... lights and cigar lighter outlet all working. Fuse for other 2 12volt outlets found in small fuse box mounted over battery located behind nearside rear wheelarch.

 

I understand from Coastline I should have disconnected the battery before removing the fuses. As after I get all the lights etc to work the clock will not reset and the intruder alarm sets of a few minutes after I lock via the fob. Advised to reset ecu. Re set failed to improve the situation. Advised to check all fuses.

 

Just checked every fuse (battery disconnected)  re set the ecu as per proceedure. Clock and alarm still the same. Otherwise just had a weeks worth of driving a great car.

 

Up for more suggestions.

 

 

Xpag

ps Paul I sent you a direct reply re caravan supply but not sure if I posted it correctly.

[paul.h]

It may be you need the car connecting to a dealer type Lexia to find the faults since the easy suggestions are not working.

 

I have not yet received any direct reply. I have found the easiest way to send a private message is to move the mouse over the person's name at the left of a post or anywhere it appears on the forum and then click on send message.

[xpag]

Hi Paul and Coastline Taxis

 

Once again thanks for your help so far.

No wanting to give in and visit a Citroen dealer, previous experience not good. I went back to the begining.As you may remember this all started with me removing fuses with the battery still in place!!!!

 

I re checked every fuse in the car, ALL fine. But  I may have done one thing wrong and am sure you may be able to help with "The location of the shunt". Refering to fusebox C :- the horezontally mounted shunt located approx over fuses F7. F4.F3 . But dId I put it back in the right place??? Should the shunt be moved over so it is over F4 F3 and F10 ? Currently (shunt in the left 2 of three sockets) live if the ignition is switched on. If I moved it over to the right It would be live all the time.

As all my problems seem to start approx 3 minutes after the ignition is switched off and the economy mode switches every thing off. I suspect the alarm and radio is loosing the permenent supply at the same time.

Unfortunatelly the best I have is the Haynes Manual 2001 to 2008 whitch does not seem to show the shunt. So not sure of its function. But it is the only thing left un-checked after my first fuse removal session and the Radio and alarm worked perfectly prior to that.

 

Now with any other car I would just move the shunt one not over to the right and see what happens, but now knowing not even the fuses can be removed without first disconnecting the battery I am very careful. Can either of you or enyone else conform the proper location for the shunt and advise if it is permently live or via the ignition. before I go further.

 

Paul Click on send measage did not work for me. Will try again.

Xpag

[coastline taxis]

Just move the shunt over you wont damage anything. When you say you check the fuses are you using a multimeter set on continuity as these fuses get hairline cracks in them that you cant see with your eyes. and just a daft one do the hazzards still work when the clock loses its power

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Happy fuses are good. Ist time I checked under load. I e test lamp.

 

Hazzards:- hazzerds switched on and car locked using remote key fob. Mirrors fold in as normal. Alarm does not go off. Ulock with remote mirrors fold out as normal.

 

Hazzards off and locking car with remote key fob. Alarm goes off after 3/4 minutes. need to unlock car with key and turn on ignition to stop alarm. Alarm initially gets slightly louder befor going silent.

 

Lock car with key, mirrors fold in as normal. Unlock car with key within 3/4 minutes, centrol locking unlocks and mirrors unfold.

 

Lock car with key. but leave for several minutes (assume ecu has now shut down) unlock with key, mirrors do not fold out centrol locking does not work, HAZZARDS WILL NOT OPERATE until ignition switched on.

 

Not moved the shunt yet. Do you know what it does??

[coastline taxis]

Do you no if the car has been defaped/cattted or had a remap of any kind

[xpag]

Hi again. Not sure whats in your mind, but as fas as I know no modifications have been made to the car. keen to move this shunt but would like to know what it is supposed to do first.

[xpag]

Gentlemen

 

Thank you both for your efforts in the recent weeks and months.

I have deliberately not replied until sure all is well.

 

Most of this episode was self inflicted. Going back to square one the relavent details :-  I had some interior lights and power sockets which did not work.

I removed, checked and replaced all the fuses inside the glove compartment. Found a defective fuse and replaced it. However I then found that the buglar alarm sounded after a few minutes (also clock flashed on and off needing a reset when turning on the ignition) after locking the car using the remote key fob.

The bottom line was I had removed a shunt mounted in the same fusebox but was not sure I had moved it. Coastline quite correctly said move the shunt to the alternative position, however I had also been told by an old friend to find out what the shunt 's function was as it may cause damage by just moving it. Being told earlier that before checking fuses without first disconnection the battery I was now going to be very careful. Sorry Coastline.

No mention is made of the shunt in the Haynes Manual or the cars handbook, and at this stage I was not going to be defeated and go to a Citroen Agent.

However I had read somewhare that the later C5's incorporated some C6 goodies, so I when on the C6 site and read an artical which mentioned a shunt. and all the mal funtioning items I had were all listed as a group. It would appear (reading the artical) that the shunt is located in one position to facilitate setting up during manufacture and to disable certain items when the car is on display in a car showroom???? The alternative shunt position is the normal position. Moving it does not damage the bsi. Moving the Shunt to the Right hand location imediatedly energised the centrol locking to the open position, and everything now works as it should do.

 

Once again thanks for your assistance. All is well. I have another minor query I hope you can help me with but I will start a separate post for clarity, and so this can be moved from the Hot files.

 

Regards Xpag

[Johndouglas]

Congratulations.   That's a great outcome.