Brand New Citroen Ds5 - Plenty Of Faults And Bad Paint Job

[mbrad26]

Hello and thank you for your time

 

After much consideration and a crazy amount of courage I have decided not to buy a Seat Leon Touring FR but a brand new Citroen DS5 2.0 HDI manual. Very soon this proofed to be a huge mistake.

 

 

The car was purchase by finance, PCP. The OTR price of the vehicle was 17000 pounds, heavily discounted from 25000 pounds. This big discount of 8000 pounds made me choose this car. Big mistake. The Conditional Credit Agreement was signed on 17-04-2014.

 

This vehicle was advertised via AutoTrader home page and all the correspondence between me and the dealer was via phone or email

 

I have recorded each phone conversation with dealer representatives, I kept the email correspondence between us and also I have detailed and relevant video recordings about how the car behaves.  

 

Friday (21.03.2014) I took delivery of a brand new Citroen DS5 which I bought with finance by PCP provided by a Finance Company. As soon as I drove the car from the dealer I've noticed Steering  and Braking faults with the car. The most obvious defect was the fact the car suffered from a bad wheel alignment, the steering wheel stayed all the time lean to the left and the car was pulling constantly left, no matter of the camber of the road.

 

 I immediately turn to the dealer to report the issues with the car. The dealer briefly inspected  the car and they told me that they used some kind of brake spray to clean the brakes and also test drove the car and informed me that the car is fault free.  This seemed very weird to me because no spray cleaner in this world will cure a bad wheel alignment but I was too tired to argue.

 

 

I've set up again on the road and I noticed that nothing has really changed with the issues reported by me, regarding Steering and Braking problems.

 

 

When I arrived home (more than 140 miles away) I have contacted the dealer by phone explaining that none of the problems with the car have been fixed. I've been told that on Monday (24.03.2014) I will be contacted by the Dealer's Service Manager who will discuss with me this matter.

 

 

Nobody contacted me and I decided to take the car to an independent and reputable tracking specialist.  Print out from the independent garage it  clearly indicates that the tracking of the car was off. This is not the only problem with my brand new car.

Here is full list of faults:

1. Bad wheel alignment and tracking causing the vehicle to constantly pull to the left.
2. Steering wheel is off centered, it stays leaned towards passenger side.
3. Steering wheel vibrates at motorways cruise speeds 60 – 70 mph.
4. Steering wheel shakes under braking.
5. The car is very unstable on uneven and slightly bumpy roads, especially when braking, causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
6. The steering wheel is twitching and jerking back and forth every time the front wheel goes over small bumps and cracks on the surface of the road, also causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
7. Miss coloured front bumper – painted in a different shade of gray.
8. Rattling noise coming from the right hand side rear passenger door.

 

Tuesday ,25.03.2014, morning I've contacted the dealer and told them that I'm willing to return the car to them so they can have a full check of the car. They agreed to bring the back to them, which I did.  They kept the car for one and a half day before calling me to come pick up the car. They did offer me a courtesy car with almost identical mileage, a Citroen C3 which drives flawless.

 

 

I went back to the dealer to pick up the car and noticed that there was an improvement to some of the issues but most of them were still not fixed. There was no more steering wheel vibration at motorways cruise but still the steering wheel was shaking under braking sometimes.

 

 This steering shake under braking was pointed out by me to the dealer Service Manager Kevin when we test drove the car together but he informed me that this was normal because of the road condition which I strongly rejected. He also tried to convince me that the steering wheel jerking and twitching from left to right was absolutely normal.  I‘ve explained to him that maybe this is normal with an used car with many miles on the clock but not with a brand new car with 3 miles on the clock.

 

 Every time my car goes over small bumps and cracks on the road the steering wheel is abruptly twitching and shaking back and forth, making the car to suddenly change direction to the left or right very rapidly.  I have tried to explain  to the dealer that this is not normal or safe but he disagrees with me.

 

 

On 31-03-2014 I phoned the Dealer and Informed him that I want to reject the car. Initially I spoke with Michael, the Sales Manager and after that I spoke with Neil, General Manager.

 

I’ve been informed that they have to speak with Citroen UK. Later that day they come back to me and told me that they opened a case with Citroen and gave me a number for the case and phone nr .

 

Neil also informed me that I have to book in the car with another Citroen dealer for an independent opinion, if this can be considered independent opinion. I agreed with that and on 01-04-2014 the car was with my local dealer Freeborn Garage Ltd.

 

 One of the mechanics has test drove the car with me and immediately noticed that the car was pulling left in a very strange way. He also noticed that the steering wheel is twitching and jerking every time the front wheels go over small bumps and cracks on the road. He told me that they have to check the air pressure, disk brakes and something like connecting the steering rack to a device that will tell if the wheel alignment of the car changes while driving the vehicle. This part is very technical for me.

 

 

Later that day they called me back to tell me that I can go take the car. They gave me a job report that says that while the car was pulling left in test driving the car, they couldn’t find anything wrong with any of the steering and suspension components so the car is OK at the moment of the testing.

 

 

On the evening of 01-04-2014 I emailed a formal Complaint Letter to Neil , General Manager of the Dealer. On 02-04-2014 I have received an email confirming that they have received the letter.

 

On 03-04-2014 I have noticed that the front bumper is painted in a noticeable different shade of grey then the rest of the car!!!!!

 

 

Here are some video links to my YouTube channel:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/sets/72157643400120115/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDvNjn3Ais

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1JxT8y6vk

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EotaMSq90Xc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F43xDltx01M

 

 

This is the story so far. 

Is the steering behaviour normal for a new car or I'm just to demanding? 

Do I have enough evidence to go with the car back and reject it?

I've done a little bit of research and found out that others have been successful in rejecting their cars. Helpdesk - Citroen C3 Picasso paint job problem - What Car?

Any thoughts or advice on how to effectively recover my money from the dealer?

Thank you

Edited April 10, 2014 by Gteuk

[C 5 Estate]

If you are a member of the AA or RAC? If so they may feel that to assist you could improve their membership numbers.

 

Tim

[coastline taxis]

That steering isnt normal. Weve seen that quite a few like that and to rectify it is down to one of two things but for the life of me i cant understand it happn on a car with only 3 miles on the clock. theyve normaly high miles or they have a good kerbing

 

 Either strut top bearings or the steering rack is gone.

 

If i were you id be geting the finance company involved aswell or just hand the car back  also trading standards

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Yes, definately not normal behaviour, on any car, never mind a new one.

 

Some of the initial steering wheel vibration could have been the wheels needing balancing which may have been sorted - but why would it need redoing after first being built, you could check the tyres to see if they are all the same - look for the manufacturer's date which will be the week number and the year such as 4013 moulded on the sidewall. The steering shake under braking could also be a problem with any of the brake discs with the runout too high or warping.

 

The paint colour of the front end clearly is not a good match - it may suggest it has been repainted for some reason, possibly accident damage. I have seen plastic bumpers slightly different but not enough to be as bad as this and on the front it clearly stands out - how on earth they dare sell the car I do not know. Our 2011 C4 is a similar colour, shark grey and that is a good match all over the car. It makes you wonder what else could be wrong with the car and rejection may be a good option. As noted above, involve the finance company (and maybe credit card company if you used this to pay any of it).

[seefive]

I think this explains the huge discount you got!  A new car cannot have paint colour differences , as I'm pretty sure they are sprayed complete 

 

Seems like it's been in a shunt- maybe dropped off the lorry?.

 

Clear case of "not fit for purpose". Cancel your direct debits to the finance company and notify them, plus the garage, Citroen Uk and the SMMT ( Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders)

[mbrad26]

Hello again

First of all : A big THANK YOU for your support!

I've just returned from Stourbridge where this morning I've rejected the car officially. Got everything on record. 
All the car's documents and keys where left at the Citroen Sutton Park Ltd. I also have given them a letter explaining all the reasons behind my actions. They didn't wanted to touch the car's key but I just left them on the reception desk while video recording.
I have also sent 2 Complaint Letters: one to the Dealers' Customer Service Manager and one to the Finance Company, explaining why I reject the car and informed them that I hold them equally responsible under Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Some strange things happened with the car on my way back to Stourbridge. In three occasions when the front axle went over some small bumps on the motorway, the entire car begun vibrating - a high amplitude vibration through the steering wheel, seats and chassis. This made my blood frozen. Never happened to me before with any car. Very strange.

Anyway, now I feel pretty relaxed.

Cheers

[mbrad26]

This actually happen yesterday morning.

[mbrad26]

Hi all

There are some interesting developments.

Late last-night, trying to find ways to make my story more public and to get those responsible to act more quickly, I decided to post pics of the front bumper on Twitter and on Citroen's Facebook pages such as Citroen UK or Citroen and so on.

This strategy seems to pay-off because I have all-ready spoke with some one from Citroen UK Head Office. Citroen UK has contacted me early this morning on Facebook and 20 min ago or so, on my phone.

Thank you guys for support

[paul.h]

I hope everything turns out ok in the end but I feel sure you have done the right thing rejecting the car. Probably this may put you off Citroens (or that dealer), if not, and you like the DS5, have a test drive somewhere else. If anyone else is offered BK14CZL then hopefully they will read this topic first.

 

I have edited your earlier post to delete the mph for obvious reasons.

[mbrad26]

I hope everything turns out ok in the end but I feel sure you have done the right thing rejecting the car. Probably this may put you off Citroens (or that dealer), if not, and you like the DS5, have a test drive somewhere else. If anyone else is offered BK14CZL then hopefully they will read this topic first.

 

I have edited your earlier post to delete the mph for obvious reasons.

Yes. Sure

 

We, me and my wife, absolutely love this car. Is not perfect, it has some shortcomings but is a unique car.

We just don't manage to understand how can they just do such a thing. This is pure and simple fraud, theft if you want. 

This car has clear signs of some sort of damage and after that it has been repaired in a hurry and sold as a brand new car.

I still have the car's VIN and I will make it available for anyone that wants to check if he bought the same car:)

 

I will come back as soon as I have more news.

 

Cheers

[seefive]

Was  the car "brand new", or pre-registered stock? I bought a pre-reg C5 exclusive last year for exactly the same discount - £25k list  reduced to £17k. It was about 3 weeks old, and perfect - had no problems at all.

 

So don't give up - there are some genuine bargains out there.

 

 

[mbrad26]

Brand new, first keeper. I'm aware of the pre-reg offers.

 

Only 3 miles on the clock and so many problems.

[mbrad26]

Hi 

I got news. Citroen UK called and informed me that they've been in contact with the Dealer all this days. The Dealer's Customer Service Manager is preparing an answer for me together with their legal team. I should expect to receive their answer later today.
Citroen UK will receive a copy of their answer as well

I'm so curious... 

Citroen UK agree with me that there is a serious colour mismatch. They also told me that if during the transit a car is damaged, the transportation company usually informs Citroen about the damage and the repairing costs and so Citroen has a database with all the vehicles damaged during transit. However Citroen UK doesn't have any information about my car in this regard. This a proper mystery because clearly there is a colour mismatch. 

That's all for now.

Cheers

[mbrad26]

Hello again

 

I have a letter from the Dealer Customer Service Manager. According to their letter I have no grounds for rejecting the car and they are all-ready charging my for car storage. 

 

Here is you can find the letter

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/13760339205/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/13760339965/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/13760351513/

 

Cheers

[Gteuk]

I have edited your original post just to add some tags, this is just for the search engines to be able to grab the story better

 

good luck with your pursuit

[mbrad26]

Thank you so much. Much appreciated

 

Best regards

[coastline taxis]

Trading standards

[mbrad26]

Yes, that's an option. I also think that Financial Ombudsman Service can help as well.

 

The bad part is that tomorrow morning I have to go abroad for the next 10 days. Anyway if I have any news from Citroen UK or athor source I will keep this thread update it.

 

Cheers

[mbrad26]

Hi there

 

Just to let you know that nothing significant has changed so far. Citroen UK has promised to send me an email as soon as the Dealer will send its response letter. The letter was received last Thursday and ... I still don't have any news from Citroen UK other than the following message received today on my FB page:

 

"Hi, our team is working hard to resolve this for you as quickly as possible. We do apologise for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience"

 

Cheers

[mbrad26]

Hi 

 

I have some news. Today I have received two emails and one phone call from Citroen UK. 

 

I couldn't take the phone call as I was up the mountains, trekking. The first email came to inform why they didn't got in-touch with me as Citroen UK was waiting for the Dealer to have their say in this story. This is a little ... as I'm convinced that they received the letter at the same time as I did.

 

The second email kind of gives me a little bit of hope:

 

I called you and left you a voicemail and of course you don't have to return my call as I know you're currently out of the country. 

 

Just a courtesy email to let you know we won't accept at this stage the dealer charging you for holding your Citroën DS5. I'm going to continue speaking with ********* from ***** and try my best to resolve matters amicably. 

 

I'll keep you updated via email whilst you're away and of course will call you once you're back in the UK.

 

 

It's clear that the pressure on Citroe UK is mounting because some of you took this story to their Facebook page and kind of forced Citroen UK to take damage control actions. I really, really THANK YOU for everything you guys doing and for your amazing support. When I begun posting on this forum, and others, I didn't really expected this kind of reactions from you all. You are truly amazing and I hope some day I will be able to return your help. 

 

One more thing happened today. WhatCar Helpdesk has contacted me on Facebook requiring more details about my story. Hope they will help as I have read about many difficult situations resolved by their enquires. Citroen UK knows them very well and many other manufacturers as well, including prestigious ones.

 

Thank you guys

[coastline taxis]

Any further updates?.

[mbrad26]

Hi guys

 

I have no further news so far. I have returned my car to the the dealer more then 2 weeks ago and no final resolution so far.

I will call the Finance Company again later today I will keep this thread updated with news as soon as I get them.

 

Sorry for not posting lately but I have been abroad for the last 10 days. Anyway now that I'm back I will come back here as soon as I have something new.

 

Thank you

[mbrad26]

Hi

 

Just spoke with Barclays and this proved to be a total waste of time. I would like to remind you that I already kept Barclays Partner Finance informed about everything since I took delivery of the car, also sent them a rejection letter explaining why I rejected the car so on. 

 

I have phoned them tonight to ask them to reconsider their position and to assume their responsibility as required by  Section 75 of Consumer Section Act 1974. They advised me that is not possible and they will book me for a call back from one of their senior advisers.  I begun to cry and laugh because this was the 3rd time when Barclays was booking me for a call back and I've never been called back. Appalling Customer Service...

 

I got asked the following:

 

"So what's wrong with the car?"

 

"Is the car still with you?"

 

"Did you returned the car?"

 

"When did you returned the car?"

 

"What the Dealer told you?''

 

... and my favourite:

 

"So what's the purpose of this call ?"

 

Basically I had to explain everything one more time to a new advisor and in the end to be told that there is nothing new in their position.

 

After I've calmed down a little bit I have contacted Financial Ombudsman Service and made an official complaint. 

 

Cheers

[mbrad26]

Hi guys

 

Bad news for me.

 

Citron UK called to ask me what exactly is it that I want: refund, replacement...

 

I've been told that Citroen UK is siding with his Dealer with regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection. 

 

Also they sent out a Citroen paint specialist (:)) to check the front bumper and the conclusion is that the miss-colour issue is due to the nature of the different materials: front bumper made from plastic and the body panels are being made from metal. Obviously I have protested against this statement. I asked why the rear bumper doesn't have the same issue as is also made from plastic - I didn't get an answer to this question.

 

They will call me back later today... I don't know why they even bother.

 

Cheers

[paul.h]

This is one of those battles where nobody wants to easily give in to you and are trying pressure tactics to try to get you to give in. They admit in the tests the car does not drive right but have not found a mechanical fault so something can not be right. If you get the time, a test drive in another one may help you since it would show if not driving right was a design feature of the DS5 car - and then if this was on the internet it could seriously damage sales more than a single car problem. As for the colour mismatch, if they were all like it nobody would buy one.

 

It would have been far better and less damaging for the dealer and Citroen to have quickly dealt with this and taken the car back. To have done this would have earned brownie points and enhanced their reputations instead of the opposite. At some point the dealer name or location will be released and who would then want to risk their hard earned money there.