Battery Light? A Known Issue?

[Sixchannel]

Just completed first 1000 miles in 2010 C5 Tourer without a problem.

Today we took car out, got one mile down the road, the car gave a little "ding,ding,ding" from somewhere to tell me that the Battery symbol was lit on the dash. Everything seemed to be working though. Pulled over and turned engine off. Nothing to see under bonnet, but then again I woudnt know what to look for.

Restarted car, battery light went out as normal and stayed out for immediate return to base.

Is this a known issue and is there a problem developing please?

Sixchannel

[Sixchannel]

Did it again today!

One mile from home after a cold start - gentle ding,ding,ding sound and battery light came on.

Everything still worked OK. I checked headlights and they didn't look dim or as if the alternator was offline and they were running off battery only. Satnav, radio, aircon - all still working.

Turned engine off, waited a few seconds only and then restarted car. Completed journey with no problems.

What could be going on please?

[coastline taxis]

sounds like your heading for a alternator. might be worth geting it checked

[Johndouglas]

Get yourself one of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-12V-24V-LED-Car-Cigarette-Socket-Voltmeter-Voltage-Battery-Tester-/310908050329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4863905b99

With the engine running it should show 14+volts. If it's your alternator playing up, the volt reading will fall back to 12+.

[paul.h]

In years gone by, the battery light coming on may have been due to a low tickover speed or the alternator belt slipping. You could also check the alternator and battery connections and the alternator/engine earth point. With a colder start, the drain on the battery would be more and the alternator would need to do more work.

[Sixchannel]

Thanks guys

For £3.49 its gotta be worth the punt so I have ordered one.

Let's hope it not the alternator as we are away this weekend and don't fancy coming home a la Green Fag.

Or if it is let it conk out "local".

Cheers

[Sixchannel]

That should read "flag". Oops!

[Sixchannel]

The gadget arrived today.

We have been away for a few days touring around and not once has the battery symbol come on. I even tried loading the alternator with every darned thing switched on - lights, fogs, hi-intensities, fan blower, aircon etc etc and it still didnt come on.

Anyway - with the ignition on, engine off and the gadget in place the reading is c 11.9 - 12.0v. With the engine running its a nominal 12.5-12.6, although I have noticed that it does go up to 13.8-14.1 momentarily if I tap the brake lights but then settles back down. Just occasionally I have seen a "running" figure of 13 point something pop up briefly. Even with everything switched on (as above) it typically stays at c12.5.

Does this help?

[Johndouglas]

So there's something not right. - With the engine running, the reading should be between 13.8 and 14+ all the time. When the engine is switched off the reading should fall back to 12.5 but the gradually reduce - depending on the health of the battery.

[Johndouglas]

Before blaming the alternator, get your battery checked out. With the battery well charged either on the car or on a charger, leave it for a while - overnight would be ok - then test the voltage reading. It should be 12.5 or so, but if its much less, your battery may be on it's way out. The battery on your car will be four years old. They can last considerably more years, but they can also die a premature death. My Xantia's battery only lasted three years from when the car was new. If you find the battery voltage OK before you start the car tomorrow, then you need to look at the charging system.

[paul.h]

The best place to check the battery voltage is on the battery itself, this will eliminate problems due to wiring and with the plug in device. If you do not have a meter, cheap ones for about £5 to £10 are more than good enough, such as this one from Machine Mart model CDM10 for £8.39 https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cdm10-economy-digital-multimeter

 

As John has said, with the engine not running, a good battery will be about 12.5 volts and with the engine running and with a good alternator the voltage will be about 14 to 14.5 volts. You have not said if the engine turns over slowly when using the starter which would be a  sign of a low battery voltage below maybe 12.3 volts, so first I would suspect the plug in device may not be correct.

[Sixchannel]

Thank you for the help,guys. Much appreciated.

I wouldn't say it turned over particularly slowly from cold. Seems quite "normal".

A nice frosty morning might sort that one out - (lol) - its been very mild since I got the car.

If alternator wasnt charging properly, wouldn't a 125 mile trip on M5 in pouring rain at c50-60mph with all lights and electrics switched on have shown something up? Flattened the battery? AFAICT its just the same now as it was then. Strange!

If it wasn't for those two odd instances of the battery light coming on, I wouldnt have given the electrics another thought.

I need to see our local independent Citroen specialist next week about enabling the DRLs so I'll get him to give it the once-over. And I'll report back.

[paul.h]

If you get the drls enabled, bear in mind the bulbs are expensive if they fail, from memory about £40 each.

[Sixchannel]

Ooh, Er, Missus!!

Do they have a notoriously poor running life?

At least with them enabled on the Lighting Parameters, I have the option of turning them off.

I wonder if they can be changed to Canbus LED's?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sixchannel

[paul.h]

LED options for DRLs have been discussed here and there is going to be an article in the December 2014 Car Mechanics magazine http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/20984-daytime-running-lights-bulb-replacement-and-led-option/

 

As for running life, I suspect they will last as long as normal headlight bulbs but since they will be on all the time, the number of days will be less and in the above topic the original poster, sillyme, had a bulb go 2 years after having the DRLs activated. So you could be looking at an average of £40 a year for bulbs plus 1 hour labour if you pay somebody - the bumper needs part removing but it appears to be possible to replace one without doing this by using a right angle torx driver and small hands (info in the above topic).

 

I wonder if they will become part of the MOT in a few years since to fit them I think is a European Directive, possibly to help cars be seen in Scandinavia.

[Sixchannel]

OK - back to the strange battery / alternator saga.

Curiouser and curiouser.

We were out in car today, my wife driving. (Normal engine turn over on start up AFAICT)

Engine off 12.5v. Engine running 12.5-12.6v

But here's the weird thing - under engine braking (on the "over-run) when going downhill or coming up to traffic signals etc, the indication jumps immediately to 14.6-14.7v!! The slightest right pedal and it jumps back to 12.5. Its absolutely instant both ways. Why should the throttle make ANY difference to the voltage?

[Johndouglas]

If the 12.5 reading was before the engine was started, then the battery looks to be OK. 14.6 or 7 is where it should be all the time the engine is running. It sounds as though there's a connection that's being intermittent. Maybe clean/check the battery terminals, also the connectors on the end of the alternator. If those are all OK maybe the alternator needs looking at.

[paul.h]

As well as the connections John has mentioned, also check the plug in device is making good contact and its contacts are clean. Maybe remove it and shake it a bit and get somebody to hold it in whilst driving to see if it makes a difference when braking, etc. Also check the earth strap between the engine and body in case it has a bad connection or is breaking. Similarly check the battery cables to the alternator, etc to see if the internal wires are breaking. It could be when braking/accelerating the engine moves and affects the cables. If a cable insulation has worn off through rubbing, if you look under the bonnet in the dark and rev the engine you may see some sparks.

[Johndouglas]

Sixchannel. What's happened about this problem? Have you found a solution? Or is it still happening?
I ask because it happened to my C5 about ten days ago. Only the once. And it hasn't happened since.
Five minutes after I started, as I was driving down a steepish hill, I got ding,ding,ding and the battery light came on. I drove with it on for another mile and then switched off. When I restarted, everything was back to normal.  

[Sixchannel]

Hi John

sorry for the delay in replying.

As is typical, I have had no repetition of it since my last post!!

I dont know if it would have reset. When it occurred we stopped, turned off the ignition and then restarted and  the fault indication didnt come back - every time

The plug in voltage reader can read anywhere between 12.5 and 14.8v.

I have been told that these cars have "intelligent" alternators. If the battery is good, then the voltage will show around the 12.5 mark as its in the "running circuit" and if it needs a topping up, then it goes 13.5 - 14.8 as the alternator does its job. I checked - Its not April 1st, but is he having me on?

I have used it all through Winter so far without any starting problems. At one point I didnt use the car for a week in the cold early January, and it started just fine with a fast turn-over.

I'll keep you posted.

[Johndouglas]

Yes - it's happened to mine just the once, back in November. As I drove down a steep hill, I got the three gongs, the light came on and stayed on until I stopped after about two miles. I switched off for ten minutes or so and when I restarted, things were back to normal. It hasn't happened since.

[Sixchannel]

Each time it happened to me, I just stopped the car, switched off and immediately re-started it.

Its in for MOT at moment and I've asked them to check/test Alternator plus earth conns etc and battery test. Let's see if it picks anything up.

[Sixchannel]

Update - Alternator in good nick, output fine. Battery is considered pretty good for a 5 year old battery.

All connection and earth points good.

I guess this one will be a mystery - until something breaks and gives the game away.lol!

[Sixchannel]

Update - on our way on holiday and only a couple of miles from home and "ding, ding" the battery warning light comes on plus the message to tell me that either the battery or charging circuit had gone on strike. Unable to stop the car, switch off and restart, i had to keep going a few minutes.

Note 1 - whatever is happening takes the AC off line.

Note 2 - just as i was able to stop, the warning light went out and the AC came back in!! We continued our 200 mile journey without any further problem.

Go figure!!

[paul.h]

If the engine temperature is high that stops the air con to reduce load on the engine, so maybe there are other things that have the same effect. Maybe you could check the wiring/connections around the battery to see if there are any faults with it. You could also try continuously measuring the voltage to see if it drops when the warning occurs - there are low cost meters on ebay that can be plugged into a 12 volt socket.