Loud Humming Noise From Front Drivers Side Wheel?

[RichCliff]

This car is becoming a nightmare.....

 

Have a C5 Mk1 2004 (04) 1.8i LX and i'm getting problem after problem.

Two weeks ago my hand brake became very loose/slack and i could move it half way up with my finger before it applied. Then last week it became very stiff, only one inch of movement before it applies now (almost back to normal in terms of movement).

Since then, i heard a low droning noise from the front driver side wheel when cruising but within the last two or three days, it's got a lot worse. Above 600mph it is almost sounding like i am at 5000rpm but the engine counter is showing under 3000rpm. That is the type of noise it sounds like when driving above 50 or so. 

Its now started to make the noise at 30-40mph so it's getting worse. More over, i've had a lot of stuff to pay for the last few weeks and simply cannot afford to take it to the garage just yet. (Tax just came out, MoT in 6 days time, mortgage, wifes shop rent and so forth, you get the idea).

 

I totally rely on my car for work, no public transport to where i work and so i'm bricking it and anxious on if its either the hand brake causing this or if it's a wheel bearing or something else.

 

One thing of note, the noise doesn't really go away when i turn around corners at speed, of which i thought if it was a bearing it might do this. It does lower the tone somewhat on some corners but not much. However, felt the outside of the wheel (middile) earlier after a 16 mile journey (from work) and it was warm..... which may possibly indicate a bearing issue or again the hand brake possibly half stuck?

 

Any help on diagnosis is appreciated...... 

Edited June 2, 2015 by RichCliff

[Johndouglas]

My guess would be that the calliper needs looking at. Are the pads dragging on the disc? Does the calliper slide easily? Does the handbrake lever on the caliper move as it should?

[Parkesie]

Hand brake could be sticking callipers or cables seizing. Might also be the cause of your droning wheel that or the wheel bearing is failing. Chock the rear wheels jack it up and check how well the wheel turns. Wheel off amd watch the calliper as someone operates the hbrake.

[RichCliff]

Hi,

I had the MOT done today, was expecting a big fat FAIL but it passed with more advisories i have ever seen!

 

They stated all four tyres need replacing urgently (I checked yesterday, only the rims are worn slightly but the tread on most of the tyre is quite deep).... 

Brakes are shot, pitted, grooved and worn on the front.

 

I did state when i picked the car up that my hand brake had issues, initially it went all floppy and very slack to the point where to apply it i had to pull it right up as high as it would go.... then suddenly the next day it was back almost to normal. He looked baffled (ATS) and said it could all be to do with the brakes in the condition they are.

I had no idea they don't take the wheels off to check the brakes during an MoT but he said they could be seen to be in worse for wear through the wheels and this could be the underlying problem in the resulting loud humming noise and smell coming from the front.

 

I didn't mention it here but last few days on way home from work, i've been starting to get a horrible smell of rubbing/hot odour coming from the engine bay but could be from the brakes? Front wheels are normally warm to touch in the middle after a 20min journey but everything else feels okay to touch.

 

Quoted me £200 for new set of brakes on the front plus fitting for the end of the month. If that quietens down the humming noise then fine, but if not, i guess the next stage would be to look at bearings.

 

The noise is incredible at 50-70mph now. It started off only being properly audible at high speed. Now, it starts at 30mph or so. 

There is a slight retraction of noise when going around a sharpish left hand bend but no lessening of noise going around a right hand bend. I thought initially then it could be the nearside front wheel bearing but then i did notice a while ago, when going around corners sometimes my brakes squeak........

[Johndouglas]

Quite right - MOT testers don't remove anything in the course of a test however, with the car on a hoist the condition of the discs can be seen. At the same time they spin the wheels to feel and listen to the bearings. Any blueing of the brake disc would indicate over heating because of dragging pads and seized callipers. I would have thought that if you can smell burning because of dragging pads, the hubs would be very hot. It would also melt the bearing grease leading to abnormal wear.

[coastline taxis]

This car is becoming a nightmare.....

 

 it's got a lot worse. Above 600mph it is almost sounding

try slowing down a bit ha ha ha. Anyway its your caliper or h/brake cable siezed thats at fault youl need to change one of them with a new one or free it of. get some one to work the handbrake and look at the back of the caliper and you should see the handbrake lever moving back and forth. you should see the lever move if it dosnt then lift the hanbrake cable of the lever and see if the cable is retracting into the outer casing

[paul.h]

This is coastline's topic on how to unseize the handbrake http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/15045-seized-caliper-fix/

[RichCliff]

Having new front discs and pads fitted in the morning but i still feel this won't correct the problem. 

Had a Service last Saturday and they checked for wheel bearing play on the wheels and found no issue. When i told/explained the issue again they looked puzzled because "We checked for play in the wheel bearings as part of the service but found them to be okay".....

However they also found all the tyres need replacing (replaced the two front 2 years ago).....

 

But..... here is a more in depth explanation....

The sound is pretty much similar to this :

 

It only becomes that sound once over 40mph, more so when i reach 50mph and is loud it actually drowns out the noise of the engine at 3000rpm.  It disappears dramatically when i turn a fair-sharp left turn/corner but is there constantly when going straight and turning right. Under 40mph its more a grinding noise, i can feel it through the pedals sometimes but i feel nothing when braking at all.... There is no steering wheel juddering or shaking.

ATS still say it could be the brakes, and as i'm getting them sorted tomorrow we shall soon see but i really am expecting that noise to still be there after i get the car back.

I had an MoT done where they checked for Wheel Bearing play and i had a Service done where they did it again, twice in three weeks. They were adamant the wheel bearings were fine with a puzzled look on their face.

 

I'm pretty sure worn tyres would not make that noise and especially when turning left for it to go, to me that is a bearing issue. 

 

Having just forked out for the MoT, Air Con, Service and now Brakes which has come to nearly £400 i am skint. They tell me now the rear brake discs and pads are worn and need replacing soon and all four tyres need replacing let alone if there is a wheel bearing problem (£200?) and so forth. 

In all, for the other work to be done (Rear brakes, Wheel Bearings and Tyres) it's look to be another £600 on top of the £400 i already spent. I've never had to buy new tyres every 2 years before on previous cars, i'm not a heavy or fast erratic driver either and my usual daily route is up a dual carriageway for 6 miles with 2 miles of country road and back..... how on earth has 2 year old tyres worn so quickly?

On top of that, possible hand brake replacement, all this has come at once, it was fine a few months ago!

 

Oh well, see what happens tomorrow regarding the loud humming noise, i pretty much doubt it will be eradicated.

 

Trouble is, where i live in the centre of a town, i have to park the car 1km away from the house, have no way of parking outside, no drive, and so checking the car or jacking it up is quite difficult on the side of a busy road just to even analyse the problem myself.

 

Quite frankly wish i never bought the thing now. No wonder it had 6 owners before me at just 47500 miles. How stupid was I.

Edited July 7, 2015 by RichCliff

[RichCliff]

Oh, as per normal service, they took it for a spin...... when i asked if they heard the noise i got "I didn't really take any notice to be honest, we didn't take it for a 100 mile test drive, just around town".
 

[xsaraiihdi]

That sound about normal for most garages. I had a peugeot 406 2.2 hdi estate that supposedly had a gearbox fault. On taking it in for an MOT their was a loud grinding noise coming from the front near side. The MOT tester raised the front of the car and spun both front wheels. Any way they passed the car as they could not hear any noise or feel any excess movement on the wheel bearing. On stripping the front near side hub of the car the front near side wheel bearing was completely shot. I suspect this is the same problem you have RichCliff. 

[RichCliff]

Your post doesn't fill me with joy !!  :lol:

 

When i explained the issue to the head of the garage after my service was conducted he came with "And this was the same during the MoT and it passed?"  erm yes, it passed but i was expecting it not to pass. So that is when he called in the mechanic and asked if the wheel bearing was okay, to which he replied, there was no play whatsoever in it....

 

Surely the best idea for checking wheel bearings is to take the wheel off and check the bloody thing, not check to see a wheel wobbles slightly. 

 

Now in that catch 22 situation where, i've run out of money (Have a mortgage and wifes business rent to pay for) and need this to be sorted ASAP as without the car, i can't get to work and then i can't earn any money to pay for further repairs.

 

I'm in a head on hands moment where i am constantly stressing over it wondering when  my wheel will fall off and in my other ear ATS saying it's fine.....   :blink:

 

As an aside, does anyone know how much roughly two front wheel bearings would cost (labour wise) ? I've seen some bearings on Euro Carparts for £55 each (reduced to that from a higher price) but what would labour cost on top of those? About the same as fitting discs and pads? Which i was quoted for £200 for all in.

Edited July 7, 2015 by RichCliff

[xsaraiihdi]

All of these quick fit centres do not fill me with any confidents where servicing and repairs are concerned. My Suggestion would to purchase all the items you need i.e wheel bearings, disc and pads (look on Ebay some very good deals on their) then find a small independant garage and get a quote for fitting.

[paul.h]

When I have needed to replace wheel bearings they have sounded like an aeroplane, getting louder as speed is increased. It could be one of the bearing surfaces is pitted but this is not enough to give any apparent play when rocking the wheel. If the wheel is carefully rotated with the brake pads out some roughness may be detected but on a front wheel drive it is probably not easy to detect. So against the MOT test the bearing may appear to be ok. It would seem the front left bearing may be the one to check but it could also be a rear one (based on the noise going when turning left but this is not a guarantee of picking the correct side). The book time for replacing a front wheel bearing is 2.1 hours including removing/refitting the brake parts but this seems a bit quick but if the brake parts are already removed it is not much more time to do the bearing - just needs the hub and swivel removing and the bearing pushing out and a new one pushing in.

 

I also avoid the fast fit places for anything other than tyres and for things I can not do myself would use my local Citroen dealer or a proper garage. Maybe you have a work colleague or relative with a drive where you could check your car.

[RichCliff]

Okay, i'm back from the ATS Euromaster Garage....

 

They fitted new brake discs and pads and the noise was obviously still there as expected.......so they took it for a test drive up the dual carriageway, the head mechanic heard the noise and so did another with him. They took it back and put it on the lift and one sat inside the car whilst the other stood underneath. The noise inside was like that in the video, very loud and discerning.... the chap underneath could barely hear anything but the usual engine noise.

They lowered it down and did more checks and found the noise to be possibly coming from the central part of the engine bay and not the wheels. They checked the bearings, tyres and came to the conclusion that the bearings were fine and the tyres were not worn enough to make that kind of noise.

 

They had their head in the engine listening and found it possibly coming from the gearbox (!?) but as they don't deal with that (they just do tyres, brakes and services etc) i need another opinion from an independent garage.

They also did the same test i did by driving along and pressing down the clutch to see if the noise goes away but it stays put..... so its not the clutch. The gearbox to them seems to be working correctly and no issues but did sound like the noise was coming from there.

 

I'm a bit baffled, surely if it was the gearbox, the noise would stay the same turning left or right but if i turn a sharp of abrupt left the noise goes away briefly.

Edited July 8, 2015 by RichCliff

[Johndouglas]

You say it's coming from the driver's side. Has the intermediate bearing on the driveshaft been looked at?

[paul.h]

At about 60k miles I would think your car has not done enough miles for a gearbox internal bearing to be worn out unless the oil level is low (according to the Haynes manual your gearbox should have a level/filling plug so it can be checked). I've replaced bearings on 2 high mileage Saabs at around 150k miles and the noise from them in top gear was a whine that increased when accelerating but reduced when the accelerator pedal was lifted.

 

If you have a Citroen dealer nearby you may be better getting an opinion from them since they will be familiar with your car and what goes wrong.

[RichCliff]

Citroen Specialist just quoted me £66 just for checking the car to see what the problem is....   is that good or pricey?

[paul.h]

The labour time to remove the right drive shaft and replace the intermediate bearing is supposed to be 1.5 hours and the bearing if part no. 324703 is £22 from citroencarparts.net. There would also be some fresh gearbox oil needed. So if you have to pay 1 hours labour to be told the bearing needs replacing and then pay again for it to be replaced, the Â£66 is wasted (I am surprised you are even being asked to pay since if your car had been booked in saying it is making a noise I would have expected the garage to have a look and give a price to fix it). You may be better just having it replaced if you think this is the fault and you could ask for a cost to do this.

 

When looking at the future costs for your car a new timing belt and water pump is about 3 hours labour so with parts could be around £300 to £400. Then ATS have said it may need 2 tyres at the rear and rear brake discs/pads - say around £400 for all these. Then add possibly £150 for this bearing, giving about £900 ish. Alternative options can include to do the minimum and accept if the car breaks in the future it is scrapped and then replaced, do nothing and look for a replacement car that does not need any work, find a friend who would do the work with you without labour costs since the labour costs are a major part of the repairs.

[RichCliff]

It turned out to the drivers side front wheel bearing. Even though when the initial test drive, both myself and the mechanic thought it to be coming from the left side front wheel.

I was always adamant that it was the wheel bearing even though ATS initially said, after TWO inspections (MOT and Service and extra time trying to find the noise location) that it was NOT the wheels but the bloody gearbox.

 

The chap at the car care centre put it up on the ramp/lift and another got in and started the wheels turning. Immediately even though i was outside i could hear it. They called me over to hold onto the suspension above the wheel and it was pretty damn obvious along with the noise it was making.

ATS said they had three of them, one under, one beside and one inside and they could not hear any noises coming from the wheels and it was only audible from inside.

 

Found it a bit steep though, £166 for one wheel bearing plus labour however they had to cut off the bolt holding the ball joint on which then, it went up to £188. 

 

Noise has gone.

[paul.h]

I am pleased you have got this sorted and looking back through the posts you were right all along about it being the driver's side wheel bearing. Maybe you have a found a garage now that you can use for the future that possibly you could trust.

 

I have added this topic to the C5 Common Problems pinned topic. Wheel bearing failure may not be common but deciding on which wheel one has failed is not easy and your experience may help others.

[RichCliff]

Thanks for all the help in this thread, it's been very informative but I also found a video on youtube which was bang on the noise I had..... down to a tee after driving for several weeks with the issue

From 1min30 onwards when it goes at speed

 

 

 

Aside from the video, the feeling by hand of the suspension strut (each side whilst spinning the wheel) once the car is jacked up or on a lift found the problem within seconds.

The vibration/grinding sensation was amplified up through this strut to the point where you could feel it quite a lot whilst holding on to it. That and the fact the wheel bearing could be heard grinding.

I guess, at the start of the problem this noise may not be apparent until you have driven the car for a few more hundred miles (like i did) and it gradually got worse but perhaps the suspension strut test might be fruitful from the outset.