2001 2.2 Hdi Non Runner

[Stephen79]

Hi. Thanks in advance if anyone can assist me. Basically I took pity on a 2001 2.2 hdi auto that was heading for the crusher and wasted €300 on it. I know nothing about it other than it is telling me on the dash that I have an immobiliser problem and won't start. It also has a braking problem.. Suitably vague! I connected my knock off DS150 to it but it will not connect to the engine ECU, it connected to all the other systems so I cleared a large number of faults. After connecting the battery the suspension is doing nothing, does the car need to be running for it to rise or is my battery voltage too low? I will check the fuses tomorrow. Car has been off the road since 2011. It was originally a UK car although it's in Ireland since 2002. It has a low mileage of only 114k miles and is amazingly straight so I'm hoping to get it back on the road. Having said that if it's going to be a complete money pit I won't be going too far with it. I may also have access to 2003 2.2 hdi auto for parts so that might help. Hopefully I can get a few pics up in the next couple of days.

[paul.h]

If it has an immobiliser problem you would be best to use a Citroen dealer diagnostic tool (Lexia) to find out what is wrong. It could be the transponder at the ignition switch, a key problem (try the spare) or something else. The battery also needs to be about 12.5 volts, any less and the car will not work correctly. 

 

The brakes are easy to sort out, there are pinned topics on cleaning them but leave this until the immobiliser problem is sorted.

[Stephen79]

I may have to invest in lexia so! Unfortunately the car has no spare key but I might stick a battery in the key fob. The battery is only a spare I have in the shed so voltage could very well be down. The car has the look of a car that was loved one time so would be a shame to scrap it. Thanks for the advice Paul.

[ESL57]

Check the fusebox and all connections. A fuse may be an issue in not connecting to ECU. Also the pin configuration of your reader versus the Protocol of the system............they must be compatible. Good that you have a spares car as it could be a waste of time and money otherwise.

   If your heart is in the project, anything can be achieved. The flip side is when the heart rules the head, it can get expensive  :D

[Johndouglas]

My previous C5 at one point in its life became a reluctant starter.   Finally I put it with a Citroen dealer.   They eventually decided the engine wasn't being spun fast enough - even with a good battery.   A change of starter motor solved the problem. 

[paul.h]

Does the engine turn over on the starter motor, just thinking if it has not been used for 6 years it may have seized up as well as the brakes being seized and possibly lots of other problems. The fuel in the tank may have gone off and need cleaning out as well as the fuel lines and fuel filter. The air con if not used for a few months will have dried out the seals which will have leaked out the refrigerant, so needing new seals, compressor, dryer and then a regass.

 

Maybe before you start spending any money you could look at the scrap value and the cost of a working car to see if it is worth saving.

[Stephen79]

The guy that owned it previously was a former Citroen main dealer but he was sketchy about the problems with it. It's turning over fine on the starter just not firing. It's rolling as well so brakes aren't completely stuck on. It's probably not worth doing it up really but I am a heavy vehicle mechanic by trade so not afraid of getting stuck into it. It's sitting on driveway outside the house so I can just do a bit every evening weather permitting. If I got it running and the suspension to rise it would be a good start. It wouldn't bother me putting €700 or €800 into if I had a good car at the end of it. But it's true, I don't need my heart ruling my head! I also have an 07 1.6hdi that's a bit of a fixer upper too so plenty to empty my wallet!

[paul.h]

At a guess, has the 1.6 hdi got a failed turbo or is this running ?

 

On the 2.2 hdi, if it is turning over fast enough (about 300 rpm needed to start), you could try something like easy start to see if it fires up. Then if it does you know it has a fuel/immobiliser problem.

[Stephen79]

My 1.6 hdi is just very oily, the orange rubber at the intake side of the turbo is split and a couple of the injectors are wet looking so this needs further investigation along with two new spheres being needed at the rear.. Lots of little things! 2.2 is cranking fast enough but there is a genuine immobiliser fault so need. Must check on my Delphi to see if it recognises the key. I really need to invest in lexia but that will have to wait until next month unfortunately! I think a lot of things are dead on the 2.2 as the suspension is doing nothing.. It's only a project really and if it's going to cost big money to get it sorted then I won't bother but I do like a challenge. Might be just a wiring issue or something simple.. Or maybe not!

[coastline taxis]

hi. the car is definatley worth doing up . after having stood for so long theres certain steps you need to take 1st.

 

1 dont muck about get a new battery for it. its a 2.2 so a 2.litre battery wont have the cranking amps.

2 replace battery in keyfob

3 with the new battery fitted go to  the fusebox in the glove compartment theres a fuse market S H pull the fuse out and go for a cup of tea.

4 replace the shunt fuse and you have just reset all the ecu,s on the car

5 now do a bsi reset   its pinned at the top of the forum

 

now try and start it and remember that the car will be in economy mode till the engine fires up. so half the problems will go once its running

then get back to us

[MikeLane]

Not sure whether the Mk1 (2001) C5 needs the engine to run for the suspension to work. or does it have an electric pump (as Mk2)?

[coastline taxis]

All electric mike. and affected by economy mode m8

[Stephen79]

Thank you so much for the positive outlook and the helpful advice Coastline. Much appreciated. I will do everything you listed on Saturday and report back with the results. Fingers crossed it will give the C5 a lifeline! I don't really want to send it off to the scrapper but my wife was shaking her head when she realised what I was dragging into the driveway last month! Love to prove her wrong!

[aspire_helen]

Mike

Trying to start an engine after so many years is a "project", not a mere fix. It is possible that many starting factors are now defective - fuel, air, pumps, injectors, valves, sensors, electrics, compression etc. See below ref fuel.

 

Other than that, if you are in hope of a quick fix i echo all coastlines advice. Get a new battery first. The suspension will not operate manually without the engine running. I assume if it has been stationary for some years, the suspension has sank to its very bottom, possibly too low for the jack?

Ref "economy mode".....this is a mode which the car goes into when you leave some electrics running with the engine off. It inhibits virtually all electrics including windows, radio, door locks etc. The idea is to prevent a flat battery. Normally, economy mode can only be cancelled by starting the engine. If the engine will not start....tough. so, if the electrics work with the engine not running, the car is not in economy mode.Personally i hate economy mode. Some years ago my engine broke down. While waiting for the AA on a hot summer evening with windows and sunroof open, and listening to the radio,the car went into economy mode. Because the engine would not start i could not operate any electrics. The windows and sunroof would not close and the doors would not lock ie insecure and open to the elements. Welcome to the C5; expect more faults to come.

Turning to fuel. After so many years without running, any fuel left in the system will be useless and potentially damaging. The diesels more volatile components will have evaporated leaving,at best, a much lower octane and more viscous fuel with high water content, at worst, a varnish residue which will jam pumps, filters and, especially the high pressure electromagntic injectors. Personally, i would not try to start the engine until you have flushed out all old fuel and checked that the components are still working ok starting with the low pressure system (fuel tank to fuel filter) , then the high pressure system (hp pump and injectors). Good luck.

[Stephen79]

Thank you to all for your replies and advice. I went at the car this afternoon and removed the shunt fuse and performed the BSI reset as Coastline suggested. At first it didn't seem to work and the hazard lights kept coming on when the battery was reconnected. I kept checking for faults using my Delphi diagnostic, I also checked all the engine bay fuses for current. While in the engine bay I noticed a disconnected multi plug under the hydraulic pump.. Reconnected this and performed the previous operations. After this the car started! However it's a bit bitter sweet as on the dash it's displaying 'serious suspension fault' and the suspension is unresponsive. If you press the suspension button the dash displays an outline of the car with an X through the car. Also the ABS doesn't seem to be communicating with the BSI. However the car selected gear and moved a bit which is great news in my book! I'm presuming I need to invest in lexia to diagnose the suspension issues? At least it's running which I am delighted about. Also the key fob is unresponsive in locking/unlocking the car even with a new battery in it. The buttons seem sticky, unfortunately there is no second key. Thanks again for all the assistance. I'm getting there by degrees.

[Stephen79]

I am thinking that perhaps the hydraulic suspension pump is knackered having sat down and taken stock of my work today. There is no noise from that area so it must be dead? Also after going over my diagnostics there appears to be no voltage at the ABS control unit so perhaps I have wiring issues.

[coastline taxis]

dont get disheartend yet. after standing for so long the ride hieght afjusters are probally stuck. jack the car up one end at a time. YOU MUST PUT THE CAR ON AXLE STANDS. if you no what anti roll bars are youl see a little link rod from the anti roll bar to a round black hieght adjuster pop one off the links off and see if the link rod moves freely. if not take it ioo and clean and grease till id does move . also have you checked the maxi fuses for the pump if not get back to us and il post a pic were they are.  finaly if it is the pump ive got loads of them u can either collect free (newcastle area) or have one for the price of the postage

[Stephen79]

I checked all the maxi fuses yesterday while testing the engine bay fuse box. They are all perfect. I'm familiar with the height sensors alright so I will check them out when I get a chance. You could be right about them being seized as the rear of the car is on the ground. Hopefully I can get my trolley jack under it! As far as I know the car hasn't been run in 4 to 5 years so that hasn't helped matters. Thanks Coastline for your advice and support and the kind offer of a pump if I need it. Would the pump out of a 2004 2.0hdi suit? I have one of those parked up and realistically it won't be hitting the road again though there is essentially nothing wrong with it other than being a bit tatty.

[coastline taxis]

yes there all the same parts

[Stephen79]

This evening I decided to see if I could jack up the rear of the car to check if the rear height adjuster was seized.. Unfortunately the car really is sitting at rock bottom and my jack wouldn't fit under it! It seems I will have to get the suspension pump working. It was too cold tonight to stay outside for too long so I will revisit it at the weekend if I get a chance. I must check the wiring on my 2004 2.0hdi for reference before I remove its suspension pump.

[Stephen79]

Does anyone know where I might acquire wiring diagrams for a 2.2 HDI C5. I am testing the wiring at the plug entering the hydraulic pump and I have a few lives but I don't know what's doing what. I could probably check my 04 2.0 HDI and cross reference but a diagram would be handy. Any help appreciated.

[paul.h]

The Haynes manual is no help since it does not include the suspension. The French RTA manual http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rta-654-1-Citro%C3%ABn-C5-Diesel/dp/2726865410/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1453309420&sr=8-1&keywords=ETAI+citroen+c5

 includes them and also the Citroen service box includes them but you need to use the car VIN and RPO to get one for your car. The service box is worth getting since it also includes the parts diagrams and workshop procedures and comes on 3 dvds to install on your pc from such as ebay - for example but you should aim for a more up to date version http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Service-Box-1-2014-TIS-EPC-WDS-/381321373493

 .

[Stephen79]

Cheers Paul and thanks for the link. I will be lost without the diagrams although I'm 99% sure the pump is the fault.

[paul.h]

You could also try a message to coastline taxis, he does a lot of work on C5s and will probably know what all the wires do and what needs to be checked.

[Stephen79]

I finally got around to removing the hydraulic pump/bhi unit, a pig of a job when you can't jack the car up. I managed to prise open the bumper and remove the mounting nuts and pipe. I will try fitting another pump but am starting to wonder is my main issue that someone disconnected the multi plug on the ECU above the pump while the battery was connected.. Any advice or opinions welcome? I read a post from a few years ago and the poster said never to remove the multi plug with the battery connected as it will log a serious suspension fault. My car displays this message.. Having gone this far I will try another pump and fingers crossed! It would be a shame to scrap the car as it runs beautifully.