2009 C5 2.0 Hdi 136 Not Starting

[11esprit]

I am having issues with my mk2 c5. Whilst driving the car suddenly cut out and would not restart. The recovery guy said fuel is not going into the engine and it was not battery/ alternator related. I tried the small pump near the fuel filter but still was not starting. I am guessing it is either the small fuel sender pump near the tank or fuse/ relay to the pump but appreciate any ideas or things I can check before throwing money at it. Also recently when switching engine off i could some clicking noise at the back of the vehicle driver side but could be unrelated.

[paul.h]

Not all cars have a lift pump in the fuel tank and yours may be one of them, hence the need for the hand primer - have a look on the eurocarparts site. Did the engine management light come on ? It is possible the crankshaft position sensor may have failed since these will stop the engine but usually not give a fault code. They will sometimes fail when hot but once cooled down allow the engine to start again until hot but eventually not work at all.

 

There may be other causes and a diagnostic check may be needed to find out. You could also check the engine fusebox since these can fail - have a look at the C5 Common Problems topic.

[11esprit]

It doesn't seem to start even in cold weather and when it shut down there were no warning lights or messages. I am guessing the lift pump should make some noise under the back driver side seat when ignition is on. It is quite easy to access so will have a look at that first

[Johndouglas]

It is quite easy to access so will have a look at that first

If your engine has a hand primer, you won't have a lift pump in the tank. Where there is a lift pump, it only works for a very short time after switching on the engine. When you squeeze the hand primer, how does it feel, soft or firm? When was the fuel filter last changed?

[11esprit]

It feels soft but within a few squeezes it it tightens up. After attempting to start it goes soft again until you squeeze and it tightens again. Fuel filter was changed 6 months ago but I used a cross land filter from eurocarparts and not a oem filter. Is there anything else it could be?

[paul.h]

When you turn the ignition key does the engine turn over on the starter motor ? If so does the rev counter show anything ? If not it might be the crankshaft sensor. According to the French RTA manual it is located next to the crankshaft pulley and should have a 3 pin connector. If you measure the resistance across the pins, it says it should be about 1 mega ohm across 2 combinations and infinite across the other.

 

Other than this, replacing lots of sensors can be expensive hoping to find the fault without having a diagnostic check.

[11esprit]

It does crank but does not start due to no fuel going in. I am hoping it is not expensive fix. Would this happen if diesel was contaminated?

[paul.h]

If cranking then the HP diesel pump must be pumping fuel unless there is a blockage before it (or tank empty) but you say the hand pump goes hard when pumped so this is unlikely. Then for the fuel to go in to the cylinders the injectors need to work which would need relevant engine sensors being ok such as the fuel pressure and crank sensor showing the engine is turning. To check the fuel pressure needs a diagnostic but the crank sensor might be checked as mentioned previously - see if any revs are shown when cranking since it usually provides the info for the rev counter, next check the sensor resistance across its pins - alternatively do a diagnostic check or replace it. Part no. may be 1920GJ but check using your VIN) but if not faulty it would be a waste of money. On ebay copy ones are only about £15. Sometimes copy parts do not work as well as ones from a dealer so something to consider..

[11esprit]

Have now run a diagnostic and it only brings back code p1207 fuel pressure regulator. Is this an easy fix can it be done with basic knowledge or will it need recovery to a garage?

[coastline taxis]

That code is just showing what you already know in that there is no fuel so it flags up rail pressure fault because there a problem with the fuel pressure.  codes are no good for a none start you need to go into live data and check the reading,s and that will tell you which system is stopping it from starting. if your not sure take a screen shot when your cranking the engine and post it here

[paul.h]

Searching on P1207 comes up with faults with things like the injectors, HP pump, fuel filter, pressure sensor. As well as the fault code, if this was not deleted there will also be freeze frame data taken when the fault occurred so you should note all this. You can then add this with the live data when trying to start the car. Can you remember when you changed the fuel filter were there any bits of metal in it ?

[11esprit]

Appreciate your help guys.  The last time fuel filter was checked there were no metal bits in the filter but I will be putting in a new bosch filter tomorrow morning and will check if there are any metal bits.  I have got the live data results below but scanner did not have any freeze frame data.

 

Live Data when cranking:                                        not cranking ignition only

DTC_CNT                       0                                                   same                                                     

LOAD_PCT (%)              0                                                    same

ETC                                 2                                                    same   

MAP (kpa)                       100                                                 same

RPM (/min)                      198                                                0

VSS (km/h)                      0                                                     same

IAT                                   2                                                   same

MAF (g/s)                         1.93                                              fluctuates between 7 and 87  but reduces to 1.87-1.93 when cranking

TP (%)                              0.0                                               same

AIR_STAT                        OFF G                                         same

OBD                                 EOBD                                          same

MIL_DIST                         0                                                  same

FRP (kpa)                         300                                              same

Edited February 27, 2016 by 11esprit

[coastline taxis]

Ok not sure what diagnostic your using but its not giving enough data to use. you need the following on the live data

 

cranking speed/rev

cam/crankshaft synchronisation

fuel pump pressure

fuel rail pressure

egr reading

map sensor reading

mass airflow reading

imobiliser .

engine temperature

battery voltage

[ESL57]

If you pressure the bulb and then it goes soft, there is a venting problem.  That can be many things. Blocked tank vent, Blocked external tank filter or fuel filter, faulty  or blocked IP etc.

   You seem to have a Siemens injection system. IP will suck from tank once primed with the bulb.  Whenever I had system like that,(old bosch) I used to feed the IP with a separate and clean gallon of diesel, via a tube with an inline filter. That eliminated my main fuel tank, and filter housing for trouble shooting.

   If electrical stuff checks good, that may be an option later.

[paul.h]

Just some comments on the values posted.

 

The cranking speed at 198 rpm may be a bit low for starting, possibly the battery is getting discharged with trying to start it. Since you are seeing the rpm then the crankshaft sensor is probably ok.

IAT - inlet air temp at 2°C, this is about right considering the cold weather.

ETC - if this is the engine temperature then at 2°C this is about right considering the weather.

FRP - if this is the fuel pressure it is low at 300 kpa. I think it ought to be around 250 bar and since there are 100 kpa (kilo pascals) in a bar then you should be getting around 25000 kpa. Possibly the fuel pressure switch is not right or the fuel pump is not giving the pressure.

MAP - manifold pressure at 100 kpa is about right until the engine is running - effectively it is showing atmospheric pressure.

MAF - I do not know if this is about right at 1.93 g/sec but a faulty MAF would probably not stop the engine running, only put it in limp mode.

TP - 0 %, probably throttle position, this will go up if you push the accelerator pedal.

[11esprit]

Hi, mechanic has now had a look and it is the timing belt that is damaged and has lost its a lot of its grooves.  I am not sure why this happened as according to the service history it was replaced by Citroen main dealer only 43000 miles ago and should last longer.  The mechanic will now strip and assess the damage which he believes will be valves, tappets and head gasket but not sure exactly how many will need replacing.  Does anyone have any experience of likely damage if the vehicle was travelling at 50 mph when it stopped.