zendog Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 On advice of my local indie garage I am planning to get them to replace the fuel pump on my C5 52 reg 2.0 HDi. Not a cheap exercise so I thought I would ask if the experienced on this forum think that this seems my logical next step. My only sympton at the moment is that the car won't start first thing after a cold night, once I have used some cold start spray and got the engine started it is fine for the rest of the day. I have already had the glow plugs replaced and the relay checked. The indie garage when they last looked at it found debris in the fuel filter which helped them diagnose a failing fuel pump. Does this sound right????? Thanks ZD Quote
Johndouglas Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I take it you're talking about the fuel lift pump in the tank. You should be able to hear it start up when you first switch on. Replacement should be around the £260 mark. Quote
techbod Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I don't think the fuel pump has anything to do with your problem, although the HDi engines are not my cuppa tea I would think this problem would indicate a fuel temp sensor. the reason I don't think its the pump is the fact it starts and runs and if it were the pump it would effect the car regardless of temps im sure someone will tell you where the fuel temp sensor is I don't have any data on the HDI Quote
coastline taxis Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I don't think the fuel pump has anything to do with your problem, although the HDi engines are not my cuppa tea I would think this problem would indicate a fuel temp sensor. the reason I don't think its the pump is the fact it starts and runs and if it were the pump it would effect the car regardless of temps im sure someone will tell you where the fuel temp sensor is I don't have any data on the HDIWas this the car that you were using easy start on for a couple of months. and as jd says lift the back seat up amd every time you turn the ignition on you should here the pump prime. also were there any fault codes shown Quote
zendog Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 Was this the car that you were using easy start on for a couple of months. and as jd says lift the back seat up amd every time you turn the ignition on you should here the pump prime. also were there any fault codes shown I am sure that I can hear the pump priming, did not get any print out/codes from the garage, they just replaced a faulty starter motor, replaced the fuel filter and diagnosed the starting problems as fuel pump failing. Once started the car seems to run fine and start okay for the rest of the day, just won't start from cold in the morning unless I use the magic spray. I want to get it sorted now but am just nervous of spending £600 on new fuel pumps to find it does not solve the problem. Quote
techbod Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 the problem is ( cold start ) and that's where you need to concentrate the fuel pump in my view is out of the question, things to look at. fuel pump primer air in system,coolant temp sensor,fuel temp sensor, get the fault codes and eliminate the guessing,when the fuel pump starts to fail you will hear it and the symptoms will be obvious just having little bits of silt in there is quite normal and that's why you have a fuel filter ( fossil fuels ) it seems your not the only one with this problem I did some research and found this, Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friend of mine, Amsterdam taxi driver with 2003 Citroen c5 2.0 hdi estate, has same problems. Changed fuel filter, starter motor and still car won't start - it's below zero here now. He is back in garage as we speak, loosing him money. On another dutch forum I read one 'victim's' solution after spending hours and 100dreds of euros on replacing fuel pumps etc... it was the + wire to the prime pump, bypassed it and everything's fine. I suggested my friend to have a look at this wiring problem. Did find many similar problems with Peugeot owners, must be a common fault with the hdi technology/wiring, but as usual not all faults are cause by the same problem. Hope this helps check other sites you will be surprised what you find, http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&r...blems&meta= Quote
coastline taxis Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 the problem is ( cold start ) and that's where you need to concentrate the fuel pump in my view is out of the question, things to look at. fuel pump primer air in system,coolant temp sensor,fuel temp sensor, get the fault codes and eliminate the guessing,when the fuel pump starts to fail you will hear it and the symptoms will be obvious just having little bits of silt in there is quite normal and that's why you have a fuel filter ( fossil fuels ) it seems your not the only one with this problem I did some research and found this, Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friend of mine, Amsterdam taxi driver with 2003 Citroen c5 2.0 hdi estate, has same problems. Changed fuel filter, starter motor and still car won't start - it's below zero here now. He is back in garage as we speak, loosing him money. On another dutch forum I read one 'victim's' solution after spending hours and 100dreds of euros on replacing fuel pumps etc... it was the + wire to the prime pump, bypassed it and everything's fine. I suggested my friend to have a look at this wiring problem. Did find many similar problems with Peugeot owners, must be a common fault with the hdi technology/wiring, but as usual not all faults are cause by the same problem. Hope this helps check other sites you will be surprised what you find, http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&r...blems&meta=it will be a bosch system you have on it. Next time it wont start if you can get someone to tow you (make sure you dont use any easy start on it)and see if it fires straight. try to wean the the car of the easy start by not using as much. Quote
zendog Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 it will be a bosch system you have on it. Next time it wont start if you can get someone to tow you (make sure you dont use any easy start on it)and see if it fires straight. try to wean the the car of the easy start by not using as much. Got a tow start recently and it did fire up straight away. Does this sound like a fuel pump problem, the garage mentuoned metal debris in the filter which they suggested was from the fuel pump.Wish I could get hold of a Haynes manual so I could get my head round the layout and workings of the car a bit better so I could be a bit more hands on. If the coolant sensor is easy to get to and cheap to buy is it worth changing this to see if it makes a difference. If so where is it? Thanks again ZD Quote
techbod Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 a tow start? thats a fuel pressure problem Quote
kfk Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 If the fuel pump in the fuel tank has failed it is unlikely that the vehicle would start either hot or cold. If the High Pressure fuel pump has failed it output can be checked together with any fault codes using the appropriate diagnostic equipment when the vehicle is in its non start situation. the fuel filter housing has various ball valves incorporated...the sealing of these can fail Glow plug failure ussually gives a fault code Compressions......always worth a check! For what its worth it sounds like someone is taking a guess at the pump being faulty, and from the price your talking about i would guess its the HP pump they are replacing. If this is the case and by chance they are correct i would ask where the swarf ha come from......because if its the HP pump faulty then the injectors and fuel rail will be contaminated, together with the pump in the tank and fuel filter......if its the pump in the tank its likely it will only leave swarf in the fuel filter. My recommendation would be to book it in with your local dealer/specialist for an early morning cold start......tell them not to use easy start on it as the problem wont reoccur for another day.....tell them to diagnose it......should be able to get some readings indicating how much fuel pressure is being produced and hopefully produce a positive diagnosis, if they dont have equipment to measure the required high pressure (280 bar)........an hour at the main dealer will cost around £80 and should produce a diagnosis for you....the alternative is to play games of chance, but i doubt they will take the pump off if it doesnt cure the problem! Quote
techbod Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 ^^ totally agree and what I was looking at was cold start issue, the system is loosing pressure over night so a tow start builds it back up? or the fuel temp sensor has failed and the tow start is bypassing it but as kfk says have it checked by a mechanic/electrician and save time+money Quote
zendog Posted April 4, 2009 Author Posted April 4, 2009 Have just picked the car up from my nearest Bosch specialist, the problem was a faulty injector which was leaking, they overhauled the injector and problem solved. (£216 for diagnostics and repair) Just wish I had done this months ago rather than take the advice of the Indie and think it was the fuel pumps. Anyway for today at least the car is going fine and I am a happy man Quote
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