Given Up

[coastline taxis]

good fun though lol when you get to my age there's not much else to do :P I don't see it as arguing more debating and its a good way of letting your hair down :( if I had some ;)

So the car was rinning fine and went into the indie for a routine service and they tell you it needs a dephaser and since then the car is running bad. if that is the casego and ask them how they got that diagnosis and most imprtantly how did they set the dephaser up. bet your car ticks over lovley all day just turns into a pig when your accelerating

[lawser]

Yeah been there already, one of the reasons i go there is because one of the mechanics was in a previous life a Citroen "Technician" ! They say it's set up correctly....Just feels like i'm up ***oops*** creek without a paddle at the moment and to make matters worse it's the wifes car !

[coastline taxis]

Yeah been there already, one of the reasons i go there is because one of the mechanics was in a previous life a Citroen "Technician" ! They say it's set up correctly....Just feels like i'm up ***oops*** creek without a paddle at the moment and to make matters worse it's the wifes car !

Hear what your saying but why did they change the dephaser in the first case if the car was running with no probs and comes in for basicly oil/plugs/filters and general check up . it would be intresting to see if kfk and jannez have changed many of these i know weve never done one. so in a nutshell the car was fine till it had a service and dephaser replaced. think first id take techbods advice annd change the plugs as thats the cheapest and easyest step first. Also if you could put some of the fault codes up on here. out of intrest have the dealers rechecked the dephaser

[lawser]

Hear what your saying but why did they change the dephaser in the first case if the car was running with no probs and comes in for basicly oil/plugs/filters and general check up . it would be intresting to see if kfk and jannez have changed many of these i know weve never done one. so in a nutshell the car was fine till it had a service and dephaser replaced. think first id take techbods advice annd change the plugs as thats the cheapest and easyest step first. Also if you could put some of the fault codes up on here. out of intrest have the dealers rechecked the dephaser

 

 

I'm already £280 quid out of pocket alone with dealer diagnostics, so it will be a cold day in hell to make me ever go back to Arnold Clark Citroen in Aberdeen !

The car did sound like a diesel before the dephaser was changed out, so it does run quieter but sadly not smoothly !

Got a spark plug tool from Halfords yesterday so will have a crack at the plugs this weekend,

thanks for the input guys :rolleyes:

[Randombloke]

I'm already £280 quid out of pocket alone with dealer diagnostics, so it will be a cold day in hell to make me ever go back to Arnold Clark Citroen in Aberdeen !

The car did sound like a diesel before the dephaser was changed out, so it does run quieter but sadly not smoothly !

 

Perhaps more people should be asking for any parts replaced to kept and given back to the customer.

Subsequent proof that the removed part was not faulty should be grounds for a refund.

[techbod]

well you just hit the nail on there head random and I have to say ive been there and MAF sensor was the issue, a bloke came to me to check his car out and I checked everything with the diagnostics and especially the MAF as the car was idling right ( the problem was actually the cat ) but he didn't believe me and took it to the dealer and they told him the MAF was bad and changed it only to have to get the cat replaced in the end, now I personally know the lad that did the checks and he told me the management said he had to replace the MAF even though he knew it was ok so it went into his toolbox for his own profit.

 

the biggest problem here is the punter didn't know how to test the MAF and because he didn't believe me I think it serves him right, of course I'm not taring all dealerships with the same brush as some might think as most are genuine but there is always that part where they don't give the faulty part back or test it in front of the punter because they don't have to and yes I do believe the old part should be given back to the customer because it belongs to him ;)

 

no flaming please I say it as it is :rolleyes: for obvious reasons I wont disclose any personal details

[kfk]

Hear what your saying but why did they change the dephaser in the first case if the car was running with no probs and comes in for basicly oil/plugs/filters and general check up . it would be intresting to see if kfk and jannez have changed many of these i know weve never done one. so in a nutshell the car was fine till it had a service and dephaser replaced. think first id take techbods advice annd change the plugs as thats the cheapest and easyest step first. Also if you could put some of the fault codes up on here. out of intrest have the dealers rechecked the dephaser

 

Presumably when you took it in for the service the vehicle was performing ok but sounded like a diesel.

 

Did you ask them to check out the 'knocking noise' or did they call you to say it was knocking?

 

When you took it from the service it had performance issues immediately......Did they replace the spark plugs at the service?.....what ones did they fit...do you know the make/specification of them?

 

When they replaced the dephaser did they also replace the cambelt?

[lawser]

Presumably when you took it in for the service the vehicle was performing ok but sounded like a diesel.

 

Did you ask them to check out the 'knocking noise' or did they call you to say it was knocking?

 

When you took it from the service it had performance issues immediately......Did they replace the spark plugs at the service?.....what ones did they fit...do you know the make/specification of them?

 

When they replaced the dephaser did they also replace the cambelt?

 

No spark plugs were never replaced nor the cambelt but the spark plugs have been now !

I think this has made a bit of a difference, but the service light still stays on and anti pollution fault is still there.

Although still can't tell if the cat or the coil is at fault, the coil was second hand so wondering what's cheaper to replace, doesn't seem to be many places that supply for the HPI engine, the only quote i've had for the coil is £170 which seems pretty steep ? What's even stranger is the fact that the car only passed it's MOT at christmas time so surely if the cat was at fault emmissions would have been affected ?

Is it worth buying a code reader and if so which one and how much ?

 

Have the dealers taken out a hit on Techbod ? :ph34r:

[coastline taxis]

Ok could we start again on this topic as its went of at that many different angles ive lost track of it.

your indy said they didnt have a clue what was wrong with your car any chance you could list what they done to try and put the fault right and also list the symptoms.

does the engine light come on all the time everytime or is it intermitent also the antipollution warning.

is there any smells/rattles air noises coming of the engine what is the mpg like.

do you have the codes that the dealer found if so what are they also when dealer cleared codes how long did the light and a/pollution warning stay off for.

anychance you could jack the car up and shake the cat to see if the plates are broke if they are youl hear them rattle inside the cat.

I guess your probally really miffed off up to now but its about time your car was sorted out so please take your time and list the above

best regards

steve

[Randombloke]

Is it worth buying a code reader and if so which one and how much ?

 

It depends on when your car was made.

 

European legislation said that all petrol cars had to comply with EOBD II from 2001, but diesel from only 2004.

 

There is a podule I was tempted to buy on eBay for £30, but despite being assured it would work with the 2.2 diesel it did not.

 

Any podule you buy will only support the standard parts of EOBD II, and will not do all the manufacturer specific stuff so will not cover suspension or other extras that might be done via diagnostics.

 

Maybe if you can post the exact model and date of manufacture, someone might be able to help you. I know you say HPi 2003, but is that when it was made? ORGA or RPN can tell you precisely.

 

This is an example of the pod I am wittering on about.

[lawser]

Right folks, my attempt at clarifying things:

 

Car had been running fine, no real problems other than occassional anti pollution light coming on and off.

Car went in for a standard service at local Indie (Which i have used for years without fault)

• 
  

Recommended new Camshaft Dephaser,it sounded like a diesel

I posted on here to find out more before agreeing to the work, personally looking back the car did sound progressively noisier over the time we've had it.

After work was done the car was hesitant on acceleration and throwing wobblers all the time, going into limp mode on accelerating in every gear and also the heater stopped working but thanks to this forum i fixed that myself, took it back and they recommended new coil but were'nt sure if this was the problem ? But they would have to charge me for new one if they fitted it, even if this wasn't the problem

• 
  

Bought a second hand coil, car seemed better but not 100%, still stuttering although less while accelerating and still going into limp mode

• 
  

Took the car back to Indie, they then thought new fuel pump but again were'nt 100% sure, recommended taking to citroen who would be able to do full diagnostics, at this point they held there hands up and waved the white flag....HaHa !

At this point took the car to a mate who has a code reader and this is what he came up with - P0302, P1113, P0403, P0313

On this basis I then took off the EGR, which didn't look too bad & checked connections, hoses, filters everything i could relating to the codes before grudgingly taking the car to Citroen Aberdeen.

• 
  

Citroen then tested the car and confirmed new fuel pump, Fault Codes - P1288 & P1294

So new fuel pump fitted, car running reasonable although still in 2nd gear a little splutterry.

Anyway driving down the motorway into 3rd gear accelerating and on comes esp malfunction, anti pollution & service light. Stop car & restart engine, anti pollution & service light stays on, esp goes out.

Take it back to Citroen, another diagnostic charge to be told permanent fault with coil pack, coil pack not firing correctly. Also permanent fault with Catalytic converter.

We'll replace coil pack and spark plugs but can't gaurantee the fault will be cured and charge you another £400 into the bargain !

To cut a long story short, told them to take a hike and replaced the plugs myself.

Now i have noticed an improvement, so am wondering what step next, coil or cat or both ?

Both anti pollution light and service lights permanently on.

 

So basically comes down to how much more do i do before calling it a day, if it's the coil or cat i can live with that but enoughs enough for me i'm afraid....No more dealers because i do genuinley feel ripped off here in Aberdeen.

[techbod]

very strange set of codes there mate im thinking coolant temp sensor as that causes all sorts of air/fueling issues and gives bogus codes which is what your getting, they replace anything to cure the fault when they should have tested the temp sensor first.

 

to test it you need a multimeter and set it to ohms and to check it the reading when its cold should be 3500 ohms and the hotter it get it should drop to 250 ohms,

 

I once had this issue and the code reader didn't find it :ph34r: but I got lots of bogus codes like engine misfire/multiple misfire,cam sensor out of range/P1300 which is the same as P0300 multiple misfire so I checked it out on a Bosch diagnostics and the sensor was reading -40 degrees when the engine was hot so I changed it and all the problems suddenly disappeared

[Randombloke]

very strange set of codes there mate im thinking coolant temp sensor as that causes all sorts of air/fueling issues and gives bogus codes which is what your getting, they replace anything to cure the fault when they should have tested the temp sensor first.

 

Temperature sensors are also relatively cheap, so even if it's not the fault then you are not badly out of pocket.

 

I've had the odd temp sensor problem, but more usually it's a thermostat.

 

I would also try and measure the crank sensor if possible. Long shot, but related to misfiring.

[coastline taxis]

If memory serves me right (but get it checked out first) the dephaser runs of the oil pressure and sort of informs the ecu to alter the timming when the engine is under load and if not set up right it will cause engine to run as if the timming is out yet when ticking over it will be fine. will check up on it as we done a bit on them years ago. And while you have confidence in your indie i really cant see how they can set them up correctly.

Just a daft thing we had last year a car with a misfire saying coil packnit turned out that a pin in the multiplug was bent so get a torch and have a look into multiplug. Other than that i cant help thinking that the problem is the dephasher not set correctly

[lawser]

If memory serves me right (but get it checked out first) the dephaser runs of the oil pressure and sort of informs the ecu to alter the timming when the engine is under load and if not set up right it will cause engine to run as if the timming is out yet when ticking over it will be fine. will check up on it as we done a bit on them years ago. And while you have confidence in your indie i really cant see how they can set them up correctly.

Just a daft thing we had last year a car with a misfire saying coil packnit turned out that a pin in the multiplug was bent so get a torch and have a look into multiplug. Other than that i cant help thinking that the problem is the dephasher not set correctly

well now after looking through the haynes manual i'm trying to work out how it cost me nearly 500 quid to do the dephaser......Am i missing something, is it just a sensor ?

[coastline taxis]

It sits on the end of the inlet camshaft and is held on by 3 bolts that secure it to the camshaft sprocket. It is set up in relation to the camshaft and fills up with oil. There is a sensor that measures the movement on the dephaser and alters the engine timming to keep the engine smooth and economical when going thru the revs. It adjusts its settings thru the oil pressure on the engine and if not set up right it whill make the car run fluffy have poor acceleration then the next minite it while fly down the road no bother at all also it will cut out for no reason at all. Come out on a morning and the car will fire up and run perfect for the first 10 mins then start acting itself. like i said it just from memory but il dig some stuff out 2morrow on it and let you know

[techbod]

very similar issues like VVT engines as in anything that alters the timing will alter fuel/air mix and send bogus codes when its down to something silly like a loose crank/cam sensor due to vibration the coolant temp sensor had me gob smacked because normally there are definate results like the cooling fans staying on or poor starting and I had none of that :) , I would have saved lots if I checked the resistance on that first time bloody technology :ph34r:

[lawser]

very similar issues like VVT engines as in anything that alters the timing will alter fuel/air mix and send bogus codes when its down to something silly like a loose crank/cam sensor due to vibration the coolant temp sensor had me gob smacked because normally there are definate results like the cooling fans staying on or poor starting and I had none of that :huh: , I would have saved lots if I checked the resistance on that first time bloody technology :ph34r:

 

 

Haven't had a chance to put into practise any of your suggestions yet but since changing the plugs the car is running a lot smoother now....Still a nagging doubt in my mind that it could be anything as simple as plugs, when i removed them they didn't look too bad !

But there's no hesitency when accelerating now and changing gear but now i have to get rid of the service light and anti pollution warning, is there any way of reseting them to see if they come on again ?

 

Cheers,

 

lawser

[coastline taxis]

Did you ever get this problem sorted out