Tommcc Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Ok so hi I recently bought a 2003 Citroen c5 2.2 hdi lx estate It has a couple of issues The biggest is this . It takes a while to start as in it turns over for ages and I have to pump pedal now I'm new to diesels and French ownership ha big mostly owned v6 petrol of the vw variety Once she starts she runs with no issues even when giving it some Initially I thought in tank pump but a quick check and it's working it's almost as if it has an air leak in fuel system ?? I've changed fuel filter and the tubing between injectors so they all nice and tight fitting I don't have any ecu readers as the one I did have was for vag cars So to summarise she takes ages to turn over before starting once started she runs perfectly Fuel filter replaced Return Lines between injectors changed Possible air leak in system allowing fuel to run back ? Quote
paul.h Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Welcome to the forum. How many miles has the car done and is the servicing and timing belt replacement up to date (belt 10 years or x miles if sooner) ? I am not sure if pumping the accelerator pedal will be of much help, not like in the old days on a petrol engine where this would squirt extra fuel in the carburettor venturi. You might try switching on the ignition so the dash lights up and leaving it a few more seconds before trying the starter and also check if it does it only first start of the day or every one. If you get a code reader with live data you could check the coolant and inlet temperatures to see if they are correct and the fuel pressure. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 9, 2016 Author Posted May 9, 2016 Cheers for replies I have found that if I undo the bleed valve on bottom of fuel filter I can hear the air escaping and it easier to start (once air stops I lock it back off ) Tried the ignition on til pump stops then repeating a few times and pumping pedal does seem to work ? Not sure how these hdi motors work tbh Not done a leak off as I convinced it's an air ingress issue although I will be doing a leak off over weekend Mileage is 170'000 miles As I say once she starts she runs all day no problem until I turn her off then starting is as was before takes a while Quote
paul.h Posted May 10, 2016 Posted May 10, 2016 If you open the bleed valve on the bottom of the fuel filter diesel should run out and not air. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 10, 2016 Author Posted May 10, 2016 Diesel will run out if engine running but with it not running it's just air coming out can hear it hissing and no liquid coming out I assume the bleed valve is for allowing water out every so often ? It's a white wheel under housing with a pipe just dangling from it Quote
paul.h Posted May 10, 2016 Posted May 10, 2016 If the filter is not full of diesel when the engine is not running then it must be draining back quickly once the engine is stopped. Did it do this before you replaced the filter and are there any signs of a fuel leak from the filter and the pipes and connections after it ? Have you got the connections on the filter right ? The attached is from a 2004 2.2 hdi C5 Quote
Tommcc Posted May 10, 2016 Author Posted May 10, 2016 Yeah it was doing it before that's why I changed filter thinking it may have been clogged Filter has diesel in it when I take top off and drains out with top off and bleed valve loosened but with top on just air escapes unless I crank engine then I get diesel out Picture looks same as what I have pipes are in same position Quote
Tommcc Posted May 10, 2016 Author Posted May 10, 2016 The white ended pipe from fuel tank in mine has a white square connection on it before it joins fuel filter ? It travels past pump down towards rail then comes back up to filterIt seems in picture that the pipe goes straight to fuel filter ? Quote
Tommcc Posted May 10, 2016 Author Posted May 10, 2016 Just to check The green ended pipe is the return to tank ? White end is feed ? Quote
paul.h Posted May 10, 2016 Posted May 10, 2016 I do not have this car any more to check it, perhaps we may get advice from another member. Quote
Johndouglas Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 Just to check The green ended pipe is the return to tank ? White end is feed ? Yes, that's right. Here's another picture of the same filter but with a hand primer system. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 Ok cheers so this morning she was turning over but nothing not even a splutter ? Had to walk home ! Will be doing a leak off test tomorrow and see if I can find someone local to plug it in for any error codes really annoying as once she starts she runs fine Quote
coastline taxis Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 ok take the feed pipe of and get someone to turn the ignition on. you want fuel spurting out instantly. If ok then reconect and go to the out side of the filter and remove that pipe and swithch ignition on and see what you get there . move your way down the fuel lin e doing the same and get back to us. Also rest your fingers on the top of the fuel filter and with all lines closed get the ignition switched on and see if you can feel the top of the pump lifting up Quote
Tommcc Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 Managed to get it started tonight fuel lines were clear and pumping fuel I did notice some air bubbles in clear pipe from filter to high pressure pump ? It started eventually off jump start from another car Could I be looking at the wrong thing ? Maybe battery or starter ? Quote
Tommcc Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 To confirm the clear pipe is attached to return from injectors via a t piece to pump and another pipe going to rail ? Quote
paul.h Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 If it is not turning over fast enough (about 300 rpm) it will not start. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 13, 2016 Author Posted May 13, 2016 Yeah this is my thinking I been looking at air ingress when I think I should be looking at the battery or the starter motor ? Battery is 74 ah not sure on the cca I assume I would need a high cca battery as opposed to a high ah ? Quote
Johndouglas Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 If it is not turning over fast enough (about 300 rpm) it will not start. When my previous C5 was 4 years old it became difficult to start from cold. Finally I took it to a Citroen dealer and they diagnosed that the starter just didn't turn fast enough. A new motor solved the problem. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 13, 2016 Author Posted May 13, 2016 Ok so having a look around for a starter motor and it's coming up with 2 versions A 1.7kw and a 2.3kw How would I know which one I need ? Quote
coastline taxis Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Before you start spending money on parts get a diagnostic scan done on the car. Live data will tell you if the starter is turning the engine over fast enough (before you waste money). It will also tell you the reason why the car wont start Quote
MikeLane Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 " When my previous C5 was 4 years old" (and out of warranty!)But check the battery first. You may have a dud or high resistance cell. Test the voltage whilst operating the starter. A good battery should keep above 12 volts. Quote
Tommcc Posted May 20, 2016 Author Posted May 20, 2016 Ok so tried to get a diagnostic and it wouldn't link up So having to go old school The plug on top of fuel filter was reading 0v Plug on top of hp pump was reading 4v with ignition on Eventually got engine running after 20 minutes but once switched off wouldn't start again We did notice injector 3 was bubbling around seal so I assume the o ring is perished. Would this cause the issue ?Another test we did was to crack off the pipe from rail to injector on ea h cylinder this cause engine to stop immediately did test on all cylinders same result. ? Fuel return wasn't excessive around 40ml after a minute combined Next up I thinking maybe a pressure test for hg ? I know I getting fuel to injectors as it will start and runs fine once started Changed starter motor for the 2.3kw as one that was in it was 1.9kw Quote
paul.h Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Is injector 3 leaking from the cylinder/injector seal or from the fuel side of the injector ? By undoing a fuel rail pipe I would guess you are losing the pressure so it would cut out the engine on the fuel pressure sensor. Quote
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