New Owner - Living With Faults (Anti-Pollution / Seats / Child Locks)

[clipper]

Hi all, 

 

Glad to find a site dedicated to this car (I always join the corresponding forum when I get a "new" car as I find the information really useful).

 

So, I have just bought a C8 2.0 16v Petrol SX in Spain (LHD).

 

Obviously this car is now old and was quite cheap, so I am not intending to fix everything at any cost, but I would like to know how others are dealing with the following faults that I have noticed in mine.

 

The first one is the Anti Pollution fault. From what I understand, it is virtually impossible to eradicate this unless the fault codes are very clear. I have a very good independent mechanic who has the PSA diagnostic tool and he has now had the car in three times, and read the codes and reset the MIL each time. However, he simply cannot find any real fault (sometimes it shows ignition faults when there aren´t any) and he refuses to simply throw parts at it in the hope it helps. He has now offered to reset the MIL free of charge every time it comes on.

 

The thing is I don't want to depend on him for ever! So what is the cheapest effective reset tool I can buy? NOTE that I do not want Lexia functionality, just a reset tool for peanuts. Here, an anti pollution fault is an automatic MOT failure so I need an easy portable tool to be able to put out the light just before the inspection.

 

Second is the collapsing seat foam. The trims on the driver seat pop off all the time because the side bolster has disintegrated. I understand that the seats are foam injection filled and cannot be reupholstered, but has anyone managed to insert a "rigid" panel in the bolster to try to maintain the lateral integrity a bit? Or performed any similar "bodge"?

 

Third is the rear door child locks, on one side it is activated by using the "window" lock on the driver's door, but this doesn't work on the other side, which can always be opened from the inside. Anyone know any fixes for this?

 

I am sure I will think of more niggles, but these are the most urgent ones for now!

 

On the upside, the car drives pretty nicely (not as nice as the Toyota Granvia I had before but such is life), suspension and brakes are good and there are no leaks for the moment, and it looks nice!

 

Thanks

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

When the garage reads/clears the fault codes get a list of them and post them on here to see if anyone can help. Also see if you can get the freeze frame data stored when the code was generated. A code reader that also reads some live engine data is far more useful than just a reader, an example http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXNT200.html The live data will let you check temperatures if there are any cooling system faults, check the exhaust catalyst/lambda sensors, air flow meter and others depending on the sensors on the engine. It will also give the freeze frame data.

[clipper]

Thanks for the response, I went to the garage today and I watched as they plugged in the OBD and looked at the computer. The MIL was on, and had been for the last 3 or 4 trips. The result was "no fault stored".

 

We really don't understand how the MIL can be on if no fault is stored, but we repeatedly started and stopped the engine until finally it showed P1430 - Electric air pump failure. This pump was the only thing changed by the garage so far, it was changed in the first visit because the pump wasn't working properly, but they are adamant that the new one is fine. Also, we are not really sure that this is the fault that caused the MIL to come on!

 

But anyway I want to be clear: Internet does not need another thread about Citroen Anti-pollution faults! I do not intend to invest much time or any more money in trying to fix an issue that nobody else ever seems to fix.

 

My thread was more about living with faults, although I would like everything to work properly, we have to be realistic about driving a 12 year old Citroen!

 

So I can see that the Foxwell tool looks good for my needs and is reasonably cheap, but what advantage does it have over a Bluetooth ELM 327 for example (which would be half the price)?

Edited October 11, 2016 by clipper

[coastline taxis]

the elm is a fantastic bit of kit for the money it costs. we still use one quite regulary when the main diagnostic scanner is in use on another job

[clipper]

Great. Thanks for the confirmation, I think I'll get one so that I can turn off the MIL whenever I need to.

 

As far as I can see, as long as the secondary air pump actually works when it should (mainly in the first 20 seconds after starting the engine), and stops when it should, there is not actually much of a problem.

 

It seems that common causes of failure are when they either sieze up, or burn out due to running all the time, and as mine is new and working as it should, the fault code must be from some intermittent control circuit or relay fault but this doesn't really worry me.

 

I have now replaced the COM 2000 unit (the headlights were switching themselves on at will) and replaced all the dash bulbs that were out, given the interior a good, thorough clean and to be honest I am now quite pleased with the car.

 

Will be getting new tyres on Friday, and then it should be reay for moving people around Spain!

 

I would just like to fix the child lock on the left sliding door....

[paul.h]

These people look as if they could repair the seat base http://www.restallgroup.co.uk/index.php?id=66 so maybe there are similar companies in Spain. On our 2003 C3 I had considered injecting a spray foam filler into the driver's seat base to replace the foam that had been lost but never gave it a try.

[clipper]

I have previously used spray foam (builder's foam) to fix rigid polystyrene things, but this foam, once dry is not flexible so is not suitable for upholstery.

 

I have looked for a flexible polyurethane type foam available commercially in a can, but haven't found anything.

 

I have seen topics in which people have used solid chunks of foam (including pipe lagging foam!) to stuff inside the seats to try to recreate the original shape.... I might give this a go as it is probably the cheapest option. The good thing is that I don't have to separate the fabric from the original foam in the damaged area as it has already come away on its own!

 

I will put up a separate thread if I ever get round to trying this!

[clipper]

Another quick question that may be related to the Antipollution fault:

 

I have read various threads in which people suggest that their fault has cleared by switching from Supermarket 95 RON to premium brand 98 RON.

 

I doubted this, and when I mentioned it to my mechanic, he cried bullshít and told me not to waste my money.

 

But I can't help wondering... what is the general consensus on here? 

[paul.h]

The engine should have a knock sensor that will compensate for a low RON fuel. I have read posts on here though of the engine management light coming on when using different petrol stations but I think these may have been diesel. You could try a couple of tankfulls of Shell petrol and see if it makes a difference. I once accidentally put a Shell premium diesel in our C5 and got a noticeable increase in fuel economy but also then found the swirl flap actuator had broken so this may have been the cause.

[clipper]

I have read posts on here though of the engine management light coming on when using different petrol stations but I think these may have been diesel. You could try a couple of tankfulls of Shell petrol and see if it makes a difference. 

Just an update:

 

So after about a month of driving with the anti-pollution fault and MIL on, one day, just driving along, my beloved C8 gave a "low fuel" warning message (it was indeed low on fuel, so this in itself was not an issue), and simultaneously the MIL went out!

 

I had already decided to empty the tank as much as possible then refuel with a premium brand fuel, so proceeded to fill it up with BP 98. About a third of the way through the tank, the MIL and anti-pollution came back on!!

 

So, never mind, I continued to drive it until one day, out of the blue, it decided to show the oil level was below minimum. Since the service in September the oil level had always been full, or nearly full on the advisory start-up display, then suddenly it decided it was below minimum (I have no idea where the oil went, there was no puddle on the floor where we park it, no drips or noticeable leaks).

 

So I put in about 500ml and upon starting the oil level once again showed as full.... and the MIL was off and no anti-pollution fault!!. It has now been through a couple of tanks of petrol since topping up the oil (including supermarket 95) and the MIL remains off. 

 

Can I draw any conclusions from any of this?

 

Probably not, but this car has a mind of its own.... 

Edited December 1, 2016 by clipper

[paul.h]

When you got the low oil level message did you check the level on the dip stick to see if it was low ? Our C3 gradually uses oil and recently came up with the message to check oil level and it was below min on the dip stick, 1 litre put in and it was ok and back to max.

 

I get the impression there may not be a real fault but a confused ecu that is not coping with level messages, if there is such a thing. When adding the oil did you disturb any wiring or connectors ?

[Simple]

Usually when the reason behind the fault goes away, the light does not turn off until 3 "clean" starts, if you do not reset it using a tool. So, it is possible that it was contaminated petrol in your case.

[paul.h]

I found this 12 year old technical bulletin in a search which possibly suggests a false oil level warning could indicate a problem with the bsi http://service.citroen.com/dtt/IFD/AC/documents/en_GB/AIDE/2050/PDF/infodiag162.pdf  Anyway lets hope it was the petrol.

[clipper]

Very interesting, thanks.

 

The oil level shown on the electronic gauge was not "wrong", it showed the fixed line of dashes. I did check on the dipstick and the oil level was just above minimum.

 

I think I will try the procedure in section 9 of the document to "ensure accuracy of the oil gauge", as it is strange is how it went from OK (only 1 or 2 dashes) to almost minimum in such a short space of time.

 

When topping up the oil, I don´t believe that I could have disturbed any wiring, the most "intrusive" part of the procedure is removing the dipstick, but adding oil hardly requires putting your hand in the engine bay.

 

One thing we (as drivers) have changed is the way we drive away from cold. Given that the engine doesn't want to rev when started from cold (see my other thread on a suspected sticking valve), we now make sure that the engine has warmed up enough before we try to move away in 1st. Previously, on trying to move away, the engine would bog down and almost stall, but if we let it warm up a bit on tick over, then use the accelerator in neutral to rev the engine a bit before engaging 1st gear, the engine does not bog. I think that previously the bogging of the engine may have caused a fault to be registered and our new procedure may be avoiding that. But I am guessing!