Given Up

[lawser]

Ok I've finally given up on my local garage :unsure: ....They have finally admitted they don't have a clue !

Going over to the Dark Side :ph34r: & taking the car to Citroen for a diagnostic check !

Might have to sell the wife and kids ! ;)

[coastline taxis]

Ok I've finally given up on my local garage :unsure: ....They have finally admitted they don't have a clue !

Going over to the Dark Side :ph34r: & taking the car to Citroen for a diagnostic check !

Might have to sell the wife and kids ! ;)

Dont be scared of the dealer. We use town center citroen(sunderland Tyne and Wear) if we get stuck and its only £35 for a diagnostic with a complete print out and they wash the car and put a air freshner in it. Now theres nowt wrong with that and in fact ive spent more ordering a take away. so if your in the tyne and wear area thats were you want to be heading

steve

[lawser]

Dont be scared of the dealer. We use town center citroen(sunderland Tyne and Wear) if we get stuck and its only £35 for a diagnostic with a complete print out and they wash the car and put a air freshner in it. Now theres nowt wrong with that and in fact ive spent more ordering a take away. so if your in the tyne and wear area thats were you want to be heading

steve

 

Cheers Steve, i know what you mean...Unfortunately i'm near Aberdeen & we don't have too much choice dealer wise....although having said that the dealer here hasn't been bad in the past when i've needed information.

I think they charge nearer the £80 mark but it will be money well spent if i get a solution to the problems,

 

Lawser

[coastline taxis]

Cheers Steve, i know what you mean...Unfortunately i'm near Aberdeen & we don't have too much choice dealer wise....although having said that the dealer here hasn't been bad in the past when i've needed information.

I think they charge nearer the £80 mark but it will be money well spent if i get a solution to the problems,

 

Lawser

Try phoning around and if your prepared to travel you should save money. Have read your posting and would think that changing a dephaser is definatley a dealer job due to the knowledge and tools that is needed to do it. From what i remember the inner bolt must be replaced everytime it is removed and if the 3 bolts that secure it to the pully are slackend then the dephaser must be reset in relation to the sprocket and this involves a specific procedure. I would mention to the dealer that youve had it replaced

[lawser]

Try phoning around and if your prepared to travel you should save money. Have read your posting and would think that changing a dephaser is definatley a dealer job due to the knowledge and tools that is needed to do it. From what i remember the inner bolt must be replaced everytime it is removed and if the 3 bolts that secure it to the pully are slackend then the dephaser must be reset in relation to the sprocket and this involves a specific procedure. I would mention to the dealer that youve had it replaced

 

Just back from Citroen and everything points towards the High Pressure fuel pump............£120 for the diagnostics, fault codes P1288 & P1294, in total i'm looking at £708.25 ! ;)

Add that to the £550 from the garage for changing the dephaser.....it's a lot of dosh ! :unsure:

 

A can of petrol would be a cheaper option !

[techbod]

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?cont..._metering_P12XX

 

p1288 is your problem

[lawser]

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?cont..._metering_P12XX

 

p1288 is your problem

 

Thanks dave,

 

From what i can understand this relates to a cylinder head sensor possibly being duff.....So how in fact do Citroen deduce from this that it's the High Pressure Fuel Pump ?

Now i'm confused ;)

[techbod]

this has always been interesting when Citroen/+ all the others diagnose a fault and always aim at the highest costing part so they do that first then say its a combination fault and replace the cheaper part second, why on earth they do this disappoints me and its a cash tactic most main dealers are doing and this brings them down in the end, not like the old days when we looked for the real problem.

 

the temp sensor by the way will effect the fuel pressure because its like the old choke so when cold it increases the fuel/air mix,

[coastline taxis]

this has always been interesting when Citroen/+ all the others diagnose a fault and always aim at the highest costing part so they do that first then say its a combination fault and replace the cheaper part second, why on earth they do this disappoints me and its a cash tactic most main dealers are doing and this brings them down in the end, not like the old days when we looked for the real problem.

 

the temp sensor by the way will effect the fuel pressure because its like the old chokee pri so when cold it increases the fuel/air mix,

A 120 quid for a diagnostic now that is bad.Realy think that citroen should standardize the rates for some work

[techbod]

personally I don't know how they can justify that and not get a proven fault with those fault codes I mean really what code does a failing pump give if any? it reports a fuel pressure loss and could have been tested rather than guessing,

not good for a garage to fail like that :rolleyes:

[lawser]

Folks,

 

Cars back on the road once again, fuel pump replaced, seems to be running well, although taking off in 2nd isn't as smooth as i'd like !

So in total £709 & i do agree about the pricing, when i picked up the car there was seagull crap all down one side but do they want to know ?

The main thing is that the car is running fine now i guess !

Thanks for all the comments,

 

lawser

 

 

personally I don't know how they can justify that and not get a proven fault with those fault codes I mean really what code does a failing pump give if any? it reports a fuel pressure loss and could have been tested rather than guessing,

not good for a garage to fail like that :huh:

[techbod]

I wonder if they changed the sensor on the engine as well :huh: but glad its sorted ;)

[lawser]

I wonder if they changed the sensor on the engine as well :unsure: but glad its sorted :angry:

 

 

Well folks.....Not even a full month back on the road and yes you guessed it, ESP fault / Service light and anti pollution warnings again !!!!! Although no limp mode.....yet !.......Spookily looks very similar to the faults that resulted in a new fuel pump and £700 quid lighter in my pocket last month.

Booked in for next week.....I wonder what the Citroen crystal ball will predict next ?

 

:huh:

[iannez]

techbod. why are you so quick to condemn main dealers. i work for a main dealer (the one mentioned by coastline taxi's actually) and no one in our garage fits parts without component testing. we try to be more than fair. we even discount the price of the diag check from the bill if we repair the car. i know there are some bad dealers out there that charge the earth for a poor service but dont tar us all with the same brush mate.

[coastline taxis]

techbod. why are you so quick to condemn main dealers. i work for a main dealer (the one mentioned by coastline taxi's actually) and no one in our garage fits parts without component testing. we try to be more than fair. we even discount the price of the diag check from the bill if we repair the car. i know there are some bad dealers out there that charge the earth for a poor service but dont tar us all with the same brush mate.

got to speak as i find and town center citroen is a realy good dealers and have treated us very fair latest example ( and remember we only take them there when where in the ***oops*** )

car failed test on emission wedensday phoned Tcc wed night and car taking in thursday. They had the car till today and told us what they thought was wrong

Total bill £31.20

 

other example

c5 auto box supply and change gearbox oil (not atf fluid either it was the proper stuff) plugged in to tell ecu

Total bill £50.00

 

4 pizzas from papa john for my sons birthday £52.00

[techbod]

techbod. why are you so quick to condemn main dealers. i work for a main dealer (the one mentioned by coastline taxi's actually) and no one in our garage fits parts without component testing. we try to be more than fair. we even discount the price of the diag check from the bill if we repair the car. i know there are some bad dealers out there that charge the earth for a poor service but dont tar us all with the same brush mate.

I don't tar all of them just most of them because they think of profit before the costumer ( take a lesson from Atuozone USA ) the do the diagnostic free because it could help gain work "you charge regardless" and that puts the car owners in fear of high costs before you even start, I know a lot about the dealers I was one but when cars didn't have all this techno involved and was very lenient on pricing where as now its on the book.

 

my answer is to make people check around before committing to dealers pricing

[iannez]

i'mm sorry mate but paying £7000 for diag tools and then doing free diag checks does not make good buisness sense. you would have people from non franchise garages posing as joe public queuing up with problem cars for starters. there is a difference between running and ruining a buisness.

[techbod]

yep I understand your reasoning because tools have to be paid for but when do they stop getting paid for?, the cost of the diagnostic should be written off if the customer has the work carried out by the dealer which would stop the crafty runners <_<

[lawser]

yep I understand your reasoning because tools have to be paid for but when do they stop getting paid for?, the cost of the diagnostic should be written off if the customer has the work carried out by the dealer which would stop the crafty runners ;)

 

 

Well if past experiences are anything to go by you'll get no arguments from me techbod ! <_<

[techbod]

its controversial to the dealer I know but the owners have there limit of nonsense charges before work is carried out ( tools have to be provided and its a TAX right off or provided by the gov or most of it is ) the gov sets the immersions laws and has a duty to help the dealers comply with that as they cant just introduce a bill that would put you out of business because you cant afford the tools ( a franchise has these rights ) so please don't push the poor man storey here your making a killing ;) and we "joe public know very well" <_< we call it a grant ( not Cary grant ) if I spelled that right ;)

[kfk]

I can only assume Techbod is having a laugh here....or is living on another planet.

[techbod]

not joking at all mate as a business you claim the VAT back and please don't say you don't claim for things through the tax returns, if I were to do diagnostics only then I would have to charge for doing that as that would be the business only but the dealer does the work so they need the tools to start so I call that double dealing and the customer is held to ransom over the diagnostics when the diagnostics could be written off if the customer were to have the work carried out by your self an that would give more confidence in the dealer therefore getting more people to come to you,

I cant count the many times people have come to me to have the codes deleted when the dealer wanted to fit new parts that were ok and the problem was bogus codes due to something else like a silly vacuum line was split now that's deception and they get away with it due to the punter not knowing how to repair it themselves.

 

its just an idea im playing with that the dealers might take on board which could increase their standing and business with the customer

[paul.h]

If you take £7000 plus loan interest payments spread over 1 to 2 years, equipment maybe used a few times a week and then add labour charges (inc overheads) when used, all makes the apparent high charges for a diagnostic only check seem quite reasonable.

[ando7p]

The whole topic is very subjective. As I see it no-one is right nor wrong, depending on perspective. If a dealer / indi pays out £7k for a diagnostic tool then there would have to be a business case to justify this expenditure. Part of this justification is cash return on investment and the obvious one of required tools for the job.

 

However, this should not be a 'get the money back today' kind of justification. Typically a business case would expect to start to see a return in 2 years, therefore I would expect to see charges of something like :-

 

7000/2 (years) = 3500

3500/48 (weeks – allowing 4 weeks for downtime for items such as holidays, sickness, etc) = 73

I have no idea how many cars need diagnostics on a weekly basis so I will pick a number for illustration purposes.

73/10 (diagnostics a week) = 7.3 pounds

In my area hourly costs vary from around 30-50 pounds and I would expect a diagnostics to be fully completed in around half an hour, therefore (50+30/2 average) 40 (per hour) / 2 = £20 labour + £7 (to recover the cost of the tool) = £27.

 

I personally do not think that this would be an unrealistic cost as a consumer to have my car diagnosed. This then leads to Techbods point of surely after the costs have been recovered, should the price not be lowered accordingly? The point that as a goodwill gesture, any work carried out after a diagnostic would see this charge waived, is a good point and idea and maybe some places already do this.

 

I know the cost of diagnostics in my area varies considerably. My local that does all the work that I can’t manage charged me £15 last time. The main dealer wanted around £55. My local indi talks me through any items that need work on and gives the best explanation and will tell me if his is unsure, and in this case does his best to borrow parts to swap out rather than expect me to pay for a new un-needed one.

 

The main dealer (last time I used them) appeared to be guessing as to what the codes meant and wanted me to give him a blank cheque to cover his inability to effectively diagnose the fault.

 

End result is that I feel I am being unjustifiably ripped off by the main dealer, whereas I feel I get very good service from my indi. No prizes for guessing which one I use. Unfortunately everyone gets tarred with the same brush (and only the bad gets publicised, typically), therefore general perception is that the diagnostics scenario is a completely overpriced scam, hence why the likes of you guys want to buy your own tools and do the work yourself. Saves money and you have far better confidence because you are actually doing the diagnosis yourself and you can see the results, and after all, would you rather trust yourself or some dealer that you do not know and have no confidence knows what they are talking about?

 

My two-penneth!

[lawser]

The whole topic is very subjective. As I see it no-one is right nor wrong, depending on perspective. If a dealer / indi pays out £7k for a diagnostic tool then there would have to be a business case to justify this expenditure. Part of this justification is cash return on investment and the obvious one of required tools for the job.

 

However, this should not be a 'get the money back today' kind of justification. Typically a business case would expect to start to see a return in 2 years, therefore I would expect to see charges of something like :-

 

7000/2 (years) = 3500

3500/48 (weeks – allowing 4 weeks for downtime for items such as holidays, sickness, etc) = 73

I have no idea how many cars need diagnostics on a weekly basis so I will pick a number for illustration purposes.

73/10 (diagnostics a week) = 7.3 pounds

In my area hourly costs vary from around 30-50 pounds and I would expect a diagnostics to be fully completed in around half an hour, therefore (50+30/2 average) 40 (per hour) / 2 = £20 labour + £7 (to recover the cost of the tool) = £27.

 

I personally do not think that this would be an unrealistic cost as a consumer to have my car diagnosed. This then leads to Techbods point of surely after the costs have been recovered, should the price not be lowered accordingly? The point that as a goodwill gesture, any work carried out after a diagnostic would see this charge waived, is a good point and idea and maybe some places already do this.

 

I know the cost of diagnostics in my area varies considerably. My local that does all the work that I can’t manage charged me £15 last time. The main dealer wanted around £55. My local indi talks me through any items that need work on and gives the best explanation and will tell me if his is unsure, and in this case does his best to borrow parts to swap out rather than expect me to pay for a new un-needed one.

 

The main dealer (last time I used them) appeared to be guessing as to what the codes meant and wanted me to give him a blank cheque to cover his inability to effectively diagnose the fault.

 

End result is that I feel I am being unjustifiably ripped off by the main dealer, whereas I feel I get very good service from my indi. No prizes for guessing which one I use. Unfortunately everyone gets tarred with the same brush (and only the bad gets publicised, typically), therefore general perception is that the diagnostics scenario is a completely overpriced scam, hence why the likes of you guys want to buy your own tools and do the work yourself. Saves money and you have far better confidence because you are actually doing the diagnosis yourself and you can see the results, and after all, would you rather trust yourself or some dealer that you do not know and have no confidence knows what they are talking about?

 

My two-penneth!

 

 

 

Wow.....I only want my car fixed without feeling ripped off ! <_<