paul.h

Probably most people know about this but if you have alloy wheels on a car new to you then remove them and put a smear of copper grease where they contact the hubs after cleaning up the contact points with a file. I have always found that the wheels/hubs corrode together a bit if not greased, making it difficult to remove the wheels and better to do this at home before a puncture and wheel change. Easiest way to free the stuck wheels I have found is with a lump of wood held against the back of the tyre (not the alloy part) and hit the wood with a heavy hammer (4 lb works a treat) with the car on max suspension height and jacked up but only slacken the wheel bolts until the wheel starts to move so less worries about being squashed if the car falls off the jack/axle stand.

This is from Haynes - Separate front fog lights were fitted to the mark 2 C5 but on the mark 1 when fitted they are in the main headlight as a 60/55 H4 bulb shared with the main beam. When not fitted the main beam is a 55 H1 bulb. So you will be lacking a third wire and 3 pin connector plug to the bulb and it is likely the BSI would need programming. In the towbar 12N socket, some are fitted with a pin that disconnects the car fog lights as the trailer plug is pushed in place. This pin pushes apart contacts within the socket so it could be this that is the problem if you have this type of socket and it has been wired up to do this - the pin (visible if looking at the socket with the cover lifted) could be stuck or the contacts could be dirty. If you have a meter, check for a 12 volt supply to the rear light bulb holder, remembering the fog lights are shared with the tail light bulb 21/5w type. Do all the other rear lights work, showing the earth is ok ? The following assumes you do not have a Citroen specific towbar harness: - you can check the connections at the towbar relay - should be a 7 way bypass type with a blue wire connecting to the car fog light wiring. Provided this relay fuse is ok (likely to be connected at the battery and probably 15 amp), there should be a 12v output on its blue wire to the towbar socket with the engine running/the car dip beam on/and the fog light switched on. If the towbar has been wired to disconnect the car fog lights with a trailer plugged in, then there may be another wire from the towbar socket back to the car fog light. Haynes shows a single fog wire from the BSI to the rear and then it splits at the left light back to the right light - so for the towbar to disconnect the car fogs, this single wire would be split, the supply go to the relay and possibly the towbar socket and a return from the socket back to the car lights. If it has been wired this way, I think it may be possible to just rejoin the car wires, keep the connection to the relay and remove the ones direct to/from the towbar socket if this is the cause of the problem.

Is this the front fog lights or the back ones and is it a hatchback or estate ? The fog light switch first twist puts on the front fog lights and their dash lamp and the second twist puts on the rear ones and their dash lamp - in both cases the engine needs to be running but I guess you already know all this. On the hatchback the rear fogs are part of the tail light bulb with a separate one for the brake lights but on the estate it is a separate fog lamp and a combined tail/brake lamp.

The parts diagrams call it a control weight but I could not find anything to say what it is for.

A couple of things picked up from Car Mechanics mag are that fitting smaller engines means they are running at higher revs, so more likely at the most efficient point so emissions are lower and if the car companies do not meet their emissions targets they are/will be fined. However, the fact they wear out and cost more to maintain probably is not part of this. Small engines are ok for shopping but once on the motorway or towing the caravan, the larger the engine the better. We are on our second C4 with the 110 hp 1.6 hdi (there is also a 90 hp one) and this engine works well but the car is 1300 kg vs a C5 at maybe around 1550 kg. I think they are still known for turbo failure though, our last C4 was on 47k miles when sold and always smoked on starting but it did not have an exhaust filter and it may not have been a turbo wear problem.

This may help a bit if the Citroen 7 way bypass relay for the lights has the same coloured wiring connecting to the car lights as the last one (and previous ones) I have used. Most of these are also the same colour as the 12N socket wires. - near side flash - yellow - fog - blue - off side flash - green - off side tail - brown - brake - red - near side tail - black - reverse - grey - earth point - white - also a separate 12 volt supply from the battery (in your other post you mention 3 supplies including the 12S relay so I assume one of these goes to the 7 way relay - if not, none of the caravan lights will be working). If you can find the relay fog wire (blue ?), it should simply need connecting to one of the car fog light wires using a blue snap lock type of connector. I am surprised that there is not already a connection though - if there is, maybe it is a bad connection or the wire is broken). You do not need to provide another 12 volt supply.

What size engine is it ?

I have had the Service light on when the battery voltage has been low on starting. The Stop light when it has stalled and also once which may have been brake related. The glow plugs lamp may only be noticed in freezing weather for a few seconds since normally they are not needed.

fatgut has posted - I've stopped jacking the car up at the front now, I just raise the suspension fully, In the car handbook it says to raise the suspension to max before using the jack. There have been reports on here when this has not been done and suspension problems have resulted.

The long number you have given is just a page or diagram number. The Citroen part number is, for example for the solenoid, 5836 80 in the diagram I think you are referring to. Note the Citroen part numbers are not the same as a manufacturer's number such as Bosch 0 001 108 183 and only tend to appear on any packaging and dealer receipts. Also this Bosch no. seems to be for petrol engines and is not listed under the diesel ones. If you go back to the page with the engine block, and click on the other starting general picture of the starter, this will give you the starter for your car (could be diagram 0600 02 5330 50A) and should be Citroen part number 5802 xx, where xx are the letters. If you do a search for a part to see what other cars use it, omit the space. Once you have the correct starter for your car such as Valeo D9R99, try an internet search to get the details/dimensions from such as the stock automotive site. For info, on the Citroen parts table, the first column is the part on the diagram, the second column the Citroen part number, the third column the quantity of these parts (eg 3 bolts), the last column a description of the part. After a few goes you will get used to the Citroen service site and find it useful. To print a page, I find a right mouse click, print preview and then printing works best, sometimes the diagram may need zooming to get it to fit before the print preview. Out of interest, how many miles has the car done. I was going to ask if the flywheel had been changed but realised it is an auto so may not be relevant. There is a website for RML Rotating Machines Ltd which looks as if you register, you can put in your car reg and it will give you the starter for your car. I have not tried it so do not know how good it is. They can also be contacted so should be able to help To contact us via post, fax, or telephone. Rotating Machines Ltd 196 bancroft road London E1 4ET United Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0) 207 780 1927 Fax: +44 (0) 207 780 1928

I use the Citroen service site on Internet explorer and have no problems. To get the correct Citroen part no. for your car the VIN needs to be put in but there are about 10 different ones listed without the VIN. Our last C5 2.2 hdi VTR 2004 is shown to use a Class 6 Denso MS428000-1620 or Valeo (Demarr) D8R27 with Citroen part no. 5802 Z5 for a new one or EF for an exchange one. 5802 is the same on all the different starters but the letters are different. Demarr may be short for French demarreur - starter motor. The eurocarparts different ones have different power, showing your Lucas at 2.3kW and the other cheaper ones at 1.7kW (from memory so may be wrong) which makes sense for the 2.2 hdi. The Citroen site also shows the parts that make up the starter so presumably you can get these from your dealer if you wish to refurbish it - but this assumes the one you have is still as the original since there are no Lucas ones listed, only Bosch, Mitsubishi, Valeo, Paris-Rhone. An internet search on Valeo d8r27 came up with stock automotive site which shows this to be a 1.9 kw one and gives cross references. The 2.3 kw one is a Valeo d8r29.

Using your car reg on the eurocarparts website includes the Lucas one at £160 (+ £72 exchange refund) with the serial number you have quoted. You can use the service.citroen.com website to see the dealer parts diagrams if you register (allowed as a member of a car club according to the terms and conditions).

Could be a wheel bearing. If it is louder when turning left or right this could indicate which it is as more weight is put on the outside of the bend. To check, jack up each wheel in turn (after putting the suspension on max height to avoid suspension problems) and spin the wheel - it helps to push back the brake pads - and listen for the noise and feel for any roughness. Web sites such as Eurocarparts will give a replacement part cost.

There is an article in the March 2012 Car Mechanics magazine on a bad C5. Soon after buying there were clouds of steam under bonnet and hoses rock hard but then as a fix the garage where it was bought from simply put a hole in the coolant expansion bottle cap at the dot on the ! so the temp gauge did not go high - possibly the head gasket had failed. Also the rear calipers had corroded away where the pad retaining bolt goes through (grease could have prevented this - a tip) so the pads were held in on one side with tie wraps. The buyer decided to reject the car and was going to the small claims court before the garage finally decided to settle and give a refund.

Picassoconvert, by coincidence, I have just put an update on the post where you did your towbar wiring. Provided your Citroen bypass relay has the fog wire, it would not be much effort to connect this to the car harness fog light wiring using a blue snaplock connector. If you remove the right tail light, you will be able to identify the correct wire (colour and its number) although I suspect you already have this to make your temporary connection.

I have just finished fitting a towbar to a 2.2.hdi VTX estate 2007, replacement for our 2004 hatchback, wiring was different to our previous mark 1 hatchback, in particular the 12 volt supplies, hence the post. The towbar was a TowTrust from Towbars Direct of Warrington, being only a few miles away, and the electrics a 7 way by pass relay for the lights and a smart relay for the caravan supplies. The 13 pin socket was wired with 12N and 12S cables which makes them easier to handle (so I was told) but can also be later fit to 12N and 12S sockets. I also got some other bits of wiring and connectors from Auto Electric Supplies (AES) through the internet at reasonable prices. The towbar fit ok but refitting the plastic undertray for the bumper was a pain needing many goes to get the cutouts right for the ends of the towbar. It would have been easier if the car had been on a ramp. To do the wiring, it was necessary to remove the boot plastic trim below and behind the left rear window (remove front screw and then pulls off, starting in the middle) and the side panel (pull up out of the top middle white clip) - both were left attached at the front. I also removed them from the right side but the side panel was not needed. The rear lights were removed to identify the colours and numbers of the wires as they go through the loom which gave: Left light: - brake - green - 2101 - tail light - blue - 263 - indicator - yellow - 289 - fog - purple - 201B - reverse - white - 290 and 242 Right light: - tail light - orange - 264 and 256 - indicator - orange - 290 - brake - brown - 2100 and 246 (not used for towbar but noted here) - fog - white - 201A (not used) - reverse - red - 224 (not used). The car main wiring loom including the rear lighting runs from the dash fusebox down the left sill (plastic covers pull off), up over the left rear wheel arch, below the rear left window, splitting to the left rear light and up along the back of the roof to the right side and right light. I used blue snaplock connectors to tie in to all the lights wiring for the 7 way bypass relay below the left rear window. The car has some wiring already for a towbar with the electrical connectors tucked out of the way next to the left rear wheel arch. The dash fusebox at the top yellow section has a direct battery supply, through maxi fuse 6 (80 amp) in the engine fusebox. The right section of this has fuses G36 to G40. G36 is for a 30 amp fuse through a beige thick wire B200 to the towbar connector - I cut off the connector and used this supply for the smart relay. Fuses G37-39 were in use but not G40 which would be a supply for electric heated seats so I pushed in a yellow 6.3mm spade connector to the top slot, connected with a wire (about 5 metres, 2.5 mm2 / 21 amp minimum needed) and fuse (15 amp) with spade connectors and along the sill route of the wiring loom to the back of the car to give a 12 volt supply for the 7 way bypass relay. There is an existing earth point at the back of the left window but the 12N/S cables did not reach so I provided another lower down. The 12N/S cables were connected to the bypass relay and smart relay and earth point following their instructions.

Picassoconvert, Another option to removing everything is to fit a 12N socket and use a 12N to 13 pin adaptor and it would not have to be tested at the MOT. I am guessing you have a 12N system and have put a 13 pin socket on the cable. If so, you probably will not have a reverse light either. Do you tow a caravan or just a trailer so do not need 12S wiring ? If you have a caravan and a mark 2 C5 then it may not be that difficult to wire up the 12S bits since there is already a towbar 30 amp 12 volt supply to the back (at least on my latest C5, 2007 2.2 hdi VTX estate). I will be adding to a towbar wiring post about this.

They seem to look the same but you could check part numbers on service.citroen website by registering (allowed in terms/conditions as a member of a car club) and looking at the free service replacement parts diagrams/numbers as used at Citroen dealers. Inside the boot will be different though.

On the service.citroen website you can read and print sections (a mouse right click works) of the car handbook without having to log in or register, the following is taken from the handbook: To remove a bulb on the tourer wing mounted lights you need to remove the boot side panel from inside the boot by pulling to the inside of the boot and then pulling up. Then from inside the boot, disconnect the electrical connector from the back of the lamp and then undo the fixing nut below the connector (it says to use the wheel brace but I would not do it up too tight since the plastic may break). The lamp should now be loose to remove and the bulb holder can be removed - check its seal is ok and try the hair dryer to dry the lamp out. Obviously have a look for any cracks or poor joints around the different plastic bits that make up the lamp.

I am not sure the catalyst would affect the smoke, that is/was done by the FAP. The cat should only help burn/oxidise residual hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water.

The Review Technique Automobile book is a French version of a Haynes type of manual. They are produced by ETAI and are available direct from ETAI or amazon's french website. The manuals are in French but are easy to follow with lots of drawings and photos, cost is about 25 euros plus delivery. For your car you will want the Citroen C5 diesel depuis (from) 09/2004 1.6 et 2.0 hdi CIP 690.1. I use this along with the Haynes manual since it often covers things better. A French/English dictionary may help a bit when first using. Link to amazon - copy and paste in browser (http://www.amazon.fr/Rta-690-1-Citro%C3%ABn-1-6-2-0/dp/2726869017/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327265689&sr=8-4). A wiring diagram covering the steering pump and suspension is not included in the Haynes manual. When looking at the parts diagrams on the service.citroen I have found it easiest to print them using a mouse right click for a print preview and then to print. I have not used the sections that need to be paid for so can not comment on these.

The MOT testers inspection manual can be downloaded free through the direct.gov websites (http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm) I have copied the relevant bit which includes reference to towbar sockets. Section 1.9 Electrical wiring and battery. Method of Inspection: 1. Check the condition and security of the battery(ies). 2. Check the condition and security of all visible electrical wiring. 3. On vehicles fitted with a towbar, check the condition and security of the trailer electrical socket. Note: This check applies to both 7 pin (12N) and 13 pin electrical sockets. 4. On vehicles fitted with a trailer 13 pin Eurosocket, use an approved device to check that the socket is wired to correctly operate the trailer: • Position lamps • Stop lamps • Direction indicators • Rear fog lamp Reason for rejection: 1. A battery insecure or leaking electrolyte. 2. Electrical wiring: a. insecure or inadequately supported so that it is likely to become damaged b. damaged or deteriorated to the extent that it is likely to cause a short circuit or become detached c. insulation damaged or deteriorated to the extent that bare wiring or connectors are exposed. 3. A trailer electrical socket: a. insecure b. damaged or deteriorated to the extent that the connecting lead could not be securely connected. 4. A trailer 13 pin Euro-socket not operating the trailer lamps as intended.

After another look in the RTA book for the C5, the steering is included in the wiring diagram for the suspension. It shows: The steering angle sensor in the block under the steering wheel has wires numbered 9000, 9001 CV00A going to the BSI and MCV0A going to an earth point. From the BSI wires, numbered 9000B, 9001B, 6260 and 87715 go to the controller on the suspension pump. From the suspension pump controller, wires numbered 7106 and 7107 go to the steering pump. Wires 9000D and 9001D go to the ESP system. So it will be worth while checking the electrical connectors on the suspension pump controller - but it may be necessary to disconnect the battery before doing this since the suspension seems to be powered up most of the time. There was a report on here of a loose suspension pump connector but I can not remember what problems it caused. Did you measure the voltage on the battery, 12.7 volts is fully charged and less than 12.5 volts is low, measured before running the engine. Once running it should be about 14.2 volts.

Did you manage to check the electrical connectors at the pump ? According to Haynes it is located under the right wing and access is by removing the wheel arch liner, so not a quick check.

Take the suspension up and down a few times on the central button to see if this helps in case it is a sticky height sensor on the front anti roll bar. If you go under the car to spray it with WD40 or similar, make sure it is on a ramp or axle stands (but here first raise the car to max as if before using the jack to avoid suspension problems) in case it drops down to low level with you under the car.